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Texans Post mortem

Well its official, this team has quit. You could just tell from the body language, this team has packed it in. What a shame for a season of such promise. The more ironic thing, this team can't even afford a first round pick to truly begin a rebuilding phase. If nothing else, this makes me turn my critical eye towards Jack Del Rio. If he truly had the reigns over this team, we wouldn't have needed garbage time to score a touchdown vs the Texans. We wouldn't have lost to the Bengals. I could cite example after example. This team has never been able to sustain success for any period of time. Even in Coughlin's worst seasons, this team played its ass off. Can we say this about the 2008 edition of the Jaguars?

 

-John "A disappointed Jaguars Fan"

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It's Embarrassing at this point.

To me personally the Jags have gotten to the point where they have quit as a team and are so bad that it is impossible to look away because I’m astonished at what happens next, as well as each new low they reach.

Jack Del Rio’s face gives away how the team is playing each game, when he has that look where he is about to cry, you know that the Jags are sucking it up.

I just hope that tanking the rest of the season which seems to be the case at hand will allow them to restock this team with talent in the draft. I’ll grudgingly accept a 4-12 season if it means they can become a playoff team next year.

by Jagz8 on Dec 2, 2008 3:04 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

why does everyone keep saying we ‘cant’ afford a high pick?

by Joeyy89 on Dec 2, 2008 3:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it's getting annoying.

Vic said it, and for some reason, it’s now the popular thing to say on this site. I’m so sick of reading that on this site. It doesn’t make you sound smart anymore because we’ve all heard it, so just stop already. You know what the response is going to be when you say it, we trade down for more picks.

R.I.P. – “We can’t afford another top ten pick.”

by Nebraska Jag on Dec 2, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No its because of the insane contracts rookies are getting

and it could only get worse this draft if it looks like the league will be headed for a strike

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks

by FSBlueApocalypse on Dec 2, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't answering why, I know why.

And I’m not saying it’s not true. I, for one, am just sick of everyone saying it. Someone says, “at least we’ll get a top ten draft pick.” and then someone responds, “we can’t afford a top ten pick.” as if that means the Jags will just forfeit the pick because we can’t afford it. It’s still a good thing because we can trade! I would love to get a top ten pick and see what we can do with it. Hell, at this point I should be talking about a top 5 pick. Let’s trade and collect some draft picks. As terrible as some of our first round picks have been, I wouldn’t want one anyway.

by Nebraska Jag on Dec 2, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

trade down

This team cannot afford another high draft pick because top ten picks demand too much signing bonus and it can’t endure another holdout like this year. With the impending elimination of the salary cap, teams are going to spend recklessly on high draft picks again this year. I hope they trade down and accumulate draft picks because this team has needs at many positions. This roster needs to be rebuilt starting with both lines. First things first, Shack Harris must go now, because this team’s most important need is someone with an eye for talent and character. Not only do they suck but they don’t show up for the games. That was a disgrace last night. They should all donate their last 2 checks to charity.

by jagsrealist on Dec 2, 2008 5:06 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

The Good, The Bad, The UGLY

The Good – congrats Fred Taylor for setting the franchise record for TD’s. MJD runnig over about 30 guys on one play. And Matt Jones, over 100 yards receiving – nice.

The Bad – the Jags team as a whole and the coaching staff. Totally agree with FSBlueApocalypse – this team has packed it in. Horrible effort, horrible coaching decisons – on side kick in qtr 3????

The UGLY – DERRICK HARVEY definately gets the stinky turd award. Let’s set the stage here – Monday Night Football where everyone is watching and he’s matched against Duane Brown – Rookie LT from Va Tech.

Take a wild guess at no show Harvey’s stats – you guessed it – ZERO. Please feel free to look up box scores on any number of sites if you have doubts here – you will NOT find his name.

Tackles – 0
Assist – 0
Sacks – 0
Tackles for Loss – 0
Forced Fumbles – 0
Int – 0
Pass Defensed – 0

I will say he did get a QB pressure early in the game that forced a bad throw on 3rd down and he at least didn’t get flagged for anything.

Now – unofficially, I counted at least 6 plays that he completely took OFF – I mean it was the absolute sorriest effort.

In the interest of being fair and with full disclosure – I am not or ever have been a Harvey fan. I think he is way over rated at this level and I thought AT THE TIME – the price for him in the draft was way out of whack. His history at UF was mixed. He had an absolutely dominating performance in the Nat’l championship game against OSU, but he also had a history of taking plays off and completely disappearing in games.

I am a huge Jags fan and WANT him to succeed, especially considering the price paid. But at the Obvious Guys Network, I call things as they are, I don’t sugar coat, and I don’t deal with wishful thinking. I deal solely with play on the field and the ONLY thing that matters is scoreboard. Poor performance is poor performance for whatever the reason.

I do think Harvey will improve because quite frankly, I don’t think he can play any worse and still be in the league and therefore he has ONLY one way to go. I do not beleive he will ever be big time with the possible exception of his contract year – go figure.

Is it possible that he actualluy develops a work ethic and turns it around – yes. I for one, will not be holding my breath.

by OGN on Dec 2, 2008 7:32 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Just a little QB pressure would go a long way

The defense would actually look good with some QB pressure, maybe even win three more games. You are right, we sold everything for a guy we knew nothing about and now we have nothing left.

by Tkopa on Dec 2, 2008 8:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the guy should be thanking mario williams...

it at least buys him another year to start producing because of the way mario flourished in his second season…but gotta do SOMETHING

by jlana24 on Dec 2, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have always maintained

that he could improve. The guy does have talent. If you doubt that, put in the 2006 nat’l championship tape and all doubts will be removed. I mean that guy terrorized Troy Smith all night long. He was dominant and kicked ass. But that was also at the college level. The pro game is much different, especially in the line play.

My problem with Harvey has always been the work ethic thing. He takes plays off – period. He did it at UF, especially last year, and he disappears in games – just like last night. I also think that he will not be as dominant at this level as he was at college – the lineman are far superior at this level.

When you combine the two, you get last night. If he just had one bad game, I’d write it off and move on, but it’s not just one game. He’s been consistently bad. Check his stats – his season’s stats are almost equal to or worse than Mario’s was LAST NIGHT. I’m serious with that statement – go check it out for yourself and be prepared to be blown away by that little factoid.

Mario had a rough rookie year also, but there were at least glimpses of what was to come. I just don’t see that in Harvey so far. The other thing that pisses me off is how much we paid – I mean to totally blow the draft like that was insane and the reutrn on investment just plain sucks at this point.

by OGN on Dec 2, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here are those stats

Go to this link:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29719&season=2008&displayPage=tab_gamecenter

Harvey stats (12 games) Williams stats (last night)
Tackles – 9 Tackles – 5
Assists – 2 Assist – 1
Sacks – 1 1/2 Sacks -3
Pass Defensed – 2 P Def – 0
Int – 1 INT – 0
Force Fumble – 0 FF – 1

That’s 12 games versus 1 game. Really opens your eyes doesn’t it!!!!

by OGN on Dec 2, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

After looking at the game stats...

I’m blown away by our number, or lack of numbers, of tackles. I didn’t add it up, but I only needed to see one thing to know it was real bad. B. Williams was tied for most tackles on the team…with 4. And all I remember from last night was watching him miss tackle after tackle. (He also had some stupid penalties, but he’s just trying to fit in). I guess I got to give him credit though, if he tied for the most, while missing a lot of the tackles, at least he’s getting to the ball a lot and trying to make a play (well…okay…trying to make it look like he was making a play).

by Nebraska Jag on Dec 2, 2008 7:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How did I know OGN wrote that

before I saw his name? haha change your name to “I know everything and repeat every statement ten times,mcgee.”

by harveyismyboy on Dec 2, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

JDR said it best...

“I think we’re working hard at it,” Del Rio said. "We came up short once again.’’

You think?? THINK? I know your press conference is right after the game and you may not have been able to collect your thoughts, but… Geez, c’mon! Did you see Jack’s face during the game? To me, it seemed pretty much devoid of any expression.

As hard as it is right now, I still have faith that they will win soon. It may not be worth much, but I can’t hope for the worst. Know what I mean out there?

Sean Jax Beach Bum

by cuffs007 on Dec 2, 2008 7:55 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Jack does not know what to do

He has never faced this situation before and he is confused. His limitations as a coach are coming out. His Offensive Coordinator is too young to know what to do either.

This is an offensive meltdown we have witnessed over the last four weeks. It won’t improve this year.

by Tkopa on Dec 2, 2008 8:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dont know if you guys noticed.....

But in the Red zone, the Texans where giving out the freedom to the jags to execute te play they have done so much this season, the inside quick slant………
The Texans brought always the safety’s near the line, and not once did the jags call a quick slant…..
Remember how many times they tried that play early in the season???

by jaxjags.. on Dec 2, 2008 8:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

JDR looked like ART SHELL last night... no emotion, no leadership... just a deep dark void.

Even on the 4th down, he wasn’t even talking with Koetter about what play to run… This is getting ridiculous.

by silencecs on Dec 2, 2008 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Art Shell!?

Even I wouldn’t go that far

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks

by FSBlueApocalypse on Dec 2, 2008 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it last night when I saw him... He looked like Art... I'm just saying what I saw...

Believe me, I didn’t like thinking it last night either, but that’s what it brought visions of…

by silencecs on Dec 2, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have to agree with ESPN on one point

There’s only so much a coach can do in this league. These guys are professionals (supposedly), they are responsible for maintaining there own discipline. It’s not like high school where players live in fear of the coach’s wrath for a poor performance and discipline is forced on you with endless gassers and up-downs. In my opinion, that’s the way it should be, but’s just not how it is. The O-line jumping off-sides for instance, that’s on them. They have been playing football all their lives, ther’s no time inthe NFL to do snap count drills, it’s a given that players in this league understand what a snap count is. Dropped passes, stupid penalties, in my opinion all that stuff falls on the players. They need to show some pride and do what they are paid to do. They had pride last year, with mostly the same staff.

That being said, JDR definitely contributed to their shortcomings with a soft training camp and maybe getting to friendly with the players. He certainly isn’t the best coach in the league and I’d be the first to criticize him in other areas, but in my opinion, the players decide whether or not they focus and play to win.

  

by rusty904 on Dec 2, 2008 11:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

We ran Tom Coughlin out of Jax and look at what he went and did!?

I don’t think it is JDR. These are professional athletes, they are getting paid millions (or at least hundreds of thousands) of dollars to play a child’s game.They have tens of thousands of fans screaming their heads off whenever they come to work, what more do you need to motivate yourself?! Some of the Jags have given up, without a doubt, and JDR should find a way to motivate them, but how? He is a young coach, but I think even a veteran couch would find it a hard sell to get these guys fired up. Hell, I don’t think Patton could do it. Fire JDR and who will replace him? There are no great prospects at the coaching level right now. So, you fire him anyway and take a chance on an unproven coach, no matter how good he is I will guarantee you one to two losing seasons.

There have been mistakes made by JDR, who in a management position has ever led 50 odd men and not made a mistake. I think more mistakes have been made by the front office in our personnel management, drafting and scouting. Both of our rookies defensive ends have been almost complete no-shows this year. I understand they are rookies, but we haven’t even seen any potential to get excited about. Our draft picks have been either boom or bust, with more than a few busts. I won’t hang it all on Shack Harris, however it is his job and he ultimately bears the responsibility for the players he brings in.

This team was doomed when our offensive line was severely weakend in the begining of the season. We lost our identity. All of a sudden we couldn’t run, we couldn’t protect Garrard well enough to allow him time in the pocket to manage the game the way he has done in the past. Our offense was mediocre at best, which put our already aged and weakening defense on the field for longer periods of the game, exhausting them.

Personally, cut Jerry Porter loose, trade down in the draft for a hand full of picks, revamp the O-line (first) D-line (second) and for Christ sake please draft a decent speedy receiver. I think the nucleus of our team is still good. Think where the team would be with an uninjured O-line?

by Kingfysh on Dec 2, 2008 11:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

For the record,

We didn’t run Tom Coughlin the coach out of town, we ran Tom Coughlin, the GM who drove us into salary cap hell out of town

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks

by FSBlueApocalypse on Dec 2, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At least the new Prince of Persia is awesome

Needed something to go well considering the football week I’ve had

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks

by FSBlueApocalypse on Dec 2, 2008 1:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Still don't no. Jared Allen on the other hand

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks

by FSBlueApocalypse on Dec 2, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It all comes down to draft picks and ours have been bad since Coughlin left

We’ve all known this for a while, but until yesterday I never completely put it together how much worse our draft picks have been since Coughlin left. Take a look…

95- Tony Boselli and James Stewart
96- Kevin Hardy
97- Renaldo Wynn
98- Fred Taylor and Donivan Darius
99- Fernando Bryant
00- R Jay Soward
01- Marcus Stroud
02- John Henderson

Ok there are a few guys there that aren’t anything special, but look at all the names of players who were great. We hit on some solid players back then.

Since Shack has come in here’s what we have…

03- Leftwich
04- Reggie Williams
05- Matt Jones
06- Marcedes Lewis
07- Reggie Nelson
08- Derrick Harvey

Not one of those names is even an above average player in the NFL. Matt Jones you might argue, but come on! Did you see him on that deep route last night? He is an average NFL player.

Derrick Harvey might end up being the worst. I can’t help but notice him blowing it on every snap. Sure plenty of defensive ends don’t put up numbers in their rookie seasons, but the good ones aren’t embarrassing like Harvey. He is terrible in every aspect of the position.

The thing that makes me most annoyed about him is everyone jumps at the chance to back him up because he played at UF. Face it folks. He blows. Take your orange and blue sunglasses off and have a look. We gave up so much to get this guy and look at what we got. Very sad.

by jimbrophoto on Dec 2, 2008 2:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

here; here

Harvey was being manhandled by another rookie tackle. I was trying to concentrate on him during the defensive plays, and the guy got sucked in when the play was to the outside and pushed out when the play went up the gut. So rookie like. Very un-impressive. He better realize he don’t know it all and learn from the veterans and coaches.

by Jaghomer on Dec 2, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Marcedes gets cured of the drops that hit him this year

I say he’s a Top 10 overall Tight End in the NFL. Other than that, you’re right

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks

by FSBlueApocalypse on Dec 2, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also the big thing between Coughlin and Shack/JDR era drafts though

How many good players did we get past round one or two under Coughlin? And although the 1st round list definitely goes into Coughlin’s favor, Wynn and Bryant didn’t really pan out. In addition, who would you rather have on that list, Kevin Hardy or Ray Lewis?

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks

by FSBlueApocalypse on Dec 2, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

Shack/JDR have found better players later on in the draft. But what would you prefer? Two great players and some filler, or a bust with 4-5 quality players? “4-5 quality players” could be generous, the jury’s still out on some of them.

Looking back at Coughlin’s picks after the 2nd round, very few names jump out: Aaron Beasley (3rd round), Jason Craft (5th round), Rob Meier (7th round), Marlon McCree (7th round), Akin Ayodele (3rd round). And these guys are just average players. But don’t forget, Coughlin found Garrard in the 4th round. Which reminds me of another 4th rounder Coughlin picked, Rob Johnson.

By the way, I wouldn’t pick him over Ray Lewis, but I loved Kevin Hardy with the Jags.

by Nebraska Jag on Dec 2, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's just the 1st round picks

Shack has made some great choices in the later rounds:
03 – Rashean Mathis, Vince Manuwai
04 – Daryl Smith, Greg Jones, Bobby McCray, Josh Scobee
05 – Scott Starks, Gerald Sensabaugh (nothing much there honestly)
06 – Maurice Jones-Drew, Clint Ingram
07 – Justin Durant, Chad Nkang, Mike Walker
08 – It’ll take more than this season to evaluate these guys

by SoCalStites on Dec 2, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Still not that impressive

You’re right, that was just the first round picks. The first round is the most important round obviously. The other rounds are important as well, but you should get superior talent in the first round and that hasn’t been happening.

I’m looking at that list of picks and although none of those players are bad, Rashean, Manuwai, Greg Jones, and Maurice Drew are the only excellent players on there (and Greg Jones is just a fullback)

I could go back and look at all the draft picks in the Coughlin era but there’s no point. I’m not trying to whine and complain. I just personally am not a fan of Shack Harris. He’s not the worst, but he certainly isn’t one of the best. I think we can do better.

by jimbrophoto on Dec 2, 2008 5:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care

Harvey has not even finished his rookie season, and you are calling him one of the worst players and terrible. That is why he got a scholarship to go to UF. And that is also why he ot drafted into the NFL. Because he is terrible.. So what. You are venting frustration from the season on one player and that is not right. Again, another ignorant person who does not pay attention to previous progressions of Defensive Ends.

by harveyismyboy on Dec 2, 2008 8:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh yeah

And please tell me how I am ignorant? Come on man. That’s a little ridiculous. You seem like the one who needs to vent. Go back to the jaguars.com message board with that crap.

by jimbrophoto on Dec 3, 2008 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

M

Matt Jones is becoming a very very very big bright spot. I think he is better than average now. And Marcedes and Reggie are looking good. Marcedes could be a top ten tight end, and Nelson had 5 picks last year, and has been injured this year. Leftwich and Reggie both suck.

by harveyismyboy on Dec 2, 2008 8:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I can tell that someone is a huge gator fan. bleh

by JCJag on Dec 3, 2008 9:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're funny

You’re name on here is harveyismyboy. Of course I would expect someone like you to back him up, just like all the Gator fans do. I’m not saying he will never be good. I sure hope he turns out to be great, but at this point I have seen not one good sign from him.

I know it can take defensive ends time to develop and he didn’t start playing football until he was a junior in High School. That’s why some scouts were surprised he entered the draft early. they felt he needed a little more time to develop. Hopefully he picks it up, but I still disagree with the decision to trade so much to get the guy.

And Matt Jones is not an above average WR. He’s just the best on a team full of bad WR’s so his stats this season are inflated because he’s targeted more than other WR’s of his ability level.

What were your thoughts on Reggie Williams last year? He looked pretty good. What is he doing now? Not much, but I still bet he can catch a 10 yard slant unlike Jerry Porter. To be considered a good WR, I think you have to put in over one good season. Reggie Williams, Matt Jones, and even Braylon Edwards have not done that. So until they do, they can’t be considered as anything but average.

Get real about Marcedes and Reggie Nelson. They aren’t necessarily bad, but not very impressive either. Marcedes drops way too many balls, but he is an improved blocker. Reggie Nelson is one of the least physical safeties in the league. He’s shown some good signs but hasn’t been nearly consistent enough.

by jimbrophoto on Dec 3, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Reggie is a free safty who's main responsibility is pass coverage.

Plus the guy is playing as a single high safety set with no d-line pressure. He’s been doing extrememly well I think, especially given his circumstances. He’s got the speed to play the single high safty set, but our CB’s don’t. Reggie Nelson will be a beast in this league… By the way, I didn’t go to UF.

-collin

by silencecs on Dec 3, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nelson has the speed for sure, but ever since his tackle "Attempt" on Justin Gage against the Titans I wonder if he has the heart

"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks

by FSBlueApocalypse on Dec 3, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought he had the speed

Then I saw him get smoked by Steve Slaton. That was confusing to me. Maybe he just wasn’t trying?

by jimbrophoto on Dec 3, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

draft picks

Couldn’t agree more jimbrophoto. Silencecs see that 1st list there are some real impact players on that list not the bums that your man Shack Harris drafts in the 1st round. Except for Soward, I would take any one of those Coughlin picks over the 6 picked by this regime.

by jagsrealist on Dec 2, 2008 2:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

RB's

anyone else excited to see a backfield consisting of MJD and Chauncey Washington? I think that could be a great young duo..

by reggie nelSON on Dec 2, 2008 4:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That may be fun to watch,

but Fred still needs to get more carries. Im starting to really think that he isnt quite done yet.

by JagSoldier on Dec 2, 2008 7:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well....

I still think Santa Claus will have the right answers in a few weeks and we can all forget about the Jaguars for a day. Or, however you may celebrate. I know we’re great fans here, but don’t let it get you actually miserable. It’s great entertainment!

Sean Jax Beach Bum

by cuffs007 on Dec 2, 2008 8:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of Santa

I really don’t want to see the Jaguar wearing a Santa hat on the 50 yard line.

by SoCalStites on Dec 2, 2008 10:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh,

And JDR looked badass last night. He looked coked-out. Maybe him and M.JONES are chillin’ before games.

by harveyismyboy on Dec 2, 2008 8:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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