Harvey Hold Out

by kujo24 on Aug 2, 2008 6:38 PM EDT Comment 12 comments

There are two sides to the hold out argument. One is that Harvey can hold out untill he gets the money he wants. The other side is that he is already earning enough money,

Harvey's agent is asking for something like a 75% increse from last year. This would be around 50 mil. The Jags offered something like a 10% increse from the pick from last year. (The longest holdout the Jags have had is Byron Leftwich, who held out 15 days.)

I'm on the side of the Jags. Derrick Harvey needs to prove his worth and then get the big bucks. Athletes are already overpaid, but in this case its just outragous. Harvey is risking everything to get a little extra money. He is going to alienate the Jags fans, and get the Jags pissed off. He needs to get on the field.

His agent argues that other players are getting some of the same increases, and that Harvey is worth it. He is preparing to hold Harvey as long as needed. Some people say greed is good. Do you agree?

Poll

Do you think it is reasonable for Harvey to hold out?

NO!!!

71 votes

YES.

12 votes

83 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 12 comments

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Comments

No...

Of couse not, who can be reasonable with that much money in front of you and a rat wispering in your ear.

To be master of oneself and never waiver in ones resolve.
- Maximus Desimus Meridius

by jagsrock on Aug 2, 2008 10:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Number 8 pick...with a "need" curve.

This ain’t your grandpa’s Number 8 draft pick!

The Jags moved up and acted aggresively in the first round to pick Harvey because of need; which quite frankly are tactics that they’re not so great at (ahem…see WR and QB first round picks from years prior for evidence.) The Jaguars are, however, second round masters (which may not be pertinent to this conversation unless Q. Groves brings doom to our rivals.)

So Harvey – without the Jags’ specific fever to draft him early because of their gaping need at DE – would have naturally been drated somewhere between number 15 and 20. Therefore, he must yield to that curve and be thankful that he’s not wearing a Falcons or Cardinals jersey. Harvey will be joining a team with pedigree and desire.

Now factor this into the equation. Many Americans are fearing recession and having to rebudget their lives because of a nearly 400% raise in oil costs. Yet, here’s some semi-proven college grad splitting hairs over millions. The recipe sucks to begin with and it tastes even worse.

I don’t however lay the blame totally on Harvey, as sports agencies are filled with dispicable parasites; but let’s face it…he’s sitting at home, dreaming of a mansion while his teammates are sacrificing blood, sweat and tears to prepare for a potentially fantastic season.

The economy sucks. And so does Harvey’s holdout. Go Jags. Go Quentin Groves. The AFC South belongs to the Jags in 2008.

Unfortunately, the truth only comes out game-by-game.

by arthardie on Aug 3, 2008 3:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Damn right.

....and Q will bring doom to our rivals.

To be master of oneself and never waiver in ones resolve.
- Maximus Desimus Meridius

by jagsrock on Aug 3, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Leverage in negotiations

Usually in negotiations, one side or the other has greater leverage. The side without leverage will usually cave in. So to me the question is, who needs who the most?

Does Derrick Harvey need the Jaguars more than the Jaguars need Derrick Harvery? or
Do the Jaguars need Derrick Harvey more than he needs them?

The Jaguars do not need Derrick Harvey at all. He is unproven and the team can hire other people next year for the kind of money Derrick Harvey wants. The team is better off walking away.

Derrick Harvey, however, needs a football team. An athlete sitting idle for a year to enter next years draft becomes much less valuable. If Derrick Harvey sat out all year, he wouldn’t be a top 10 pick, he probably wouldn’t have been one this year. He may not even be a first round pick. That puts him in the Quentin Groves money. Derrick Harvey’s value is dropping, just as Jack said. He is a perishable commodity.

What about Derricks agent? He needs a big deal for Derrick. The agent for Sedrick Ellis got $50mil. If Derrick gets $25mil then next years class wil choose the agent who was better at negotiations. In short, without a big Derrick deal, this guys leverage with future athletes drops far.

The truth is, Derrick Harveys agent is willing to sacrifice Derrick to save his own career. It is sad, but Derrick Harvey needs to take this situation into his own hands to save his value. He needs to call the shots or risk losing everything. His agent doesn’t care about him.

If Derrick holds out like JaMarcus Russell, into the season, then his value for 2008 is lost. At that point, is it better to enter the 2009 free-agency market? That is what the Jaguars face.

by Tkopa on Aug 3, 2008 6:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

harvey's right's

tkopa..just something to add. im pretty sure that the jags hold harveys rights for 2 years. so even if he doesnt sign. he would not be able to re-enter the draft for 2 years. it would be 2010. seems the jags might have enev more leverage.

GO JAGS

by bighalliganbar on Aug 3, 2008 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

I don’t think the Cincy Bengals and the Jaguars are two teams you want to try and hold up for money. Neither of them like to budge.

Let’s see. I hope he is signed and turns out great but not at the cost of the rest of the team.

by Tkopa on Aug 3, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

something else to add

I had said earlier that I had heard Ellis, Harvey and Rivers are all represented by CAA. I found out that is not so. Rivers is with Athletes First. So he and Harvey are not dealing with the same p.o.s. uhh I mean agent.

To be master of oneself and never waiver in ones resolve.
- Maximus Desimus Meridius

by jagsrock on Aug 3, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Rivers gets close to Mayo money

then Derrick Harvey is left hanging. There is a big dollar gap between Mayo and Ellis. If Rivers signs closer to Mayo, then the Jags have a case. If Rivers signs closer to Ellis, $10mill yr, the Jags have a choice of walking or signing what they don’t want to sign, $10mil a year.

Derrick Harvey at $4mil is market rate and fair.

by Tkopa on Aug 3, 2008 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Free Market

In a free market system, all it takes is one strong-willed team to not budge, and there should be ramifications for next year’s draft picks. If teams realize that they don’t have to give in, and force these kids and their swine-agents to accept realistic figures, the League won’t have to initiate a hard rookie cap. I would love it if the Jags gave them an ultimatum. Sign now for the current offer, or lose 0.5 million for every week of holdout. Honestly, the longer he is out, the less he is worth to the team. I think that would be a fair scenario.

by Pyrofish on Aug 4, 2008 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

perfectly said...

but you have a heart, I don’t. How about $1mil. per week?

To be master of oneself and never waiver in ones resolve.
- Maximus Desimus Meridius

by jagsrock on Aug 4, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds reasonable

I’m sure the Jags have offered close to that, but Harvey’s agent says he wants 10 to 75% increase on last year… Im guessing he’s asking around 65 though.

by kujo24 on Aug 4, 2008 7:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Now it gets interesting

RIVERS, BENGALS CLOSE TO A DEAL
Posted by Mike Florio on August 4, 2008, 8:35 p.m. EDT
After a somewhat protracted holdout created by some outlandish deals done at the No. 6 and No. 7 spots in round one, a league source tells us that the Bengals are close to a contract with linebacker Keith Rivers, the No. 9 overall pick in the draft.

Rivers could be at practice as soon as Tuesday morning.

We’re told that the two sides have come up with a creative way to bridge the gap between the floor for the contract, the deal between the Pats and linebacker Jerrod Mayo at No. 10, and the unknown ceiling that would have been provided by a deal between the Jaguars and defensive end Derrick Harvey, the No. 8 pick in the draft.

by Tkopa on Aug 4, 2008 9:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs