Big John: A Second Opinion
by viator on Jun 11, 2009 11:09 PM EDT
35 comments
I've been thinking about all the hub-bub over the "Saga of John". So I decided to do some research on the subject matter. The information I've found has inspired me to look at this situation from a new perspective.
Initially, like many of you, I was under the impression that John was just laying down and trying to dodge the hellish Jacksonville heat and humidity. Considering that John has been a virtual ghost at practice over the last couple of years, I don't think that was an outlandish supposition. Given his penchant for absence, John has earned himself a reputation of laziness.
I believe that Jack's reaction, words of fire and venom, was warranted and overdue. However, If John has indeed sustained an injury in this current scenario, we should allow him some grace. I don't know the man personally, but I'd hope that he wouldn't lie about such things. Who knows?
Some of what I found on the injury, I already knew. The rest is news to me. Basically, with a shoulder separation, a tear occurs in the ligaments that attaches the shoulder blade and collar bone at the joint. "Muy doloroso!" It is usually a result of a blow to, or a fall on the shoulder. We know that John was doing the Rollie-Pollie when he put his shoulder out, so that jives.
Here are some other facts that I've found.
The separations are graded I, II, or III depending on the severity of the sprain. A grade 1 results in tenderness, but no actual separation. A grade 2 often means that a slight separation of the clavicle from the shoulder has occurred. A grade 3 is a more severe separation. In a worse case scenario, the collar bone comes completely out of it's normal position and pushes up on the skin of the shoulder.
Severe pain, limited movement, swelling, and bruising are the common symptoms associated with a separation. Grades 1 through 3 may require the shoulder to be placed in a sling. The arm should be immobilized, and kept from rising away from the chest to allow the ligaments to heal. In certain cases, separations heal by themselves in 2 to 4 weeks. A severe case could take up to 2 months, but that usually coincides with surgery. If you return to action too soon you run the risk of worsening the injury.
Is John really hurt? I don't know. If he is, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. As well as time to heal. We won't know for sure without seeing the X-rays first hand. I think we all know how likely that is to happen. Maybe something good will come of this. He hasn't been stellar in recent years. Perhaps this will give rise to a young DT that will lead Jacksonville's defense back to dominance...minus an infirm Henderson.
The University of Michigan Health System - Sports Medicine was my primary source for the above information.
V.
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Nice information and well written.
Somehow, I don’t see Gene being one for “Grace” or “Mercy”… haha…
I think without John, we’re screwed at DT, but I’m willing to be screwed at DT for the sake of chemistry. This is a rebuilding year regardless.
The End Is Nigh... www.infowars.com
by silencecs on Jun 11, 2009 11:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe you are right
Sometime you have to prune to promote growth. I have a feeling Gene has no problem cutting away what has withered and grown useless. I admire than kind of decisiveness.
Vae victis!
by viator on Jun 11, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I'm Jack and Gene, I give Henderson an ultimatum
Have a full evaluation by team doctors, and if something is found, then so be it. If not, the next time he wants to just ride the bike at practice again, then he might just head to the locker room to get a head start on clearing his locker.
"The worst kind of non-smokers are the ones that come up to you and cough. That's pretty cruel isn't it? Do you go up to cripples and dance too?"-Bill Hicks
Currently Playing:
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by Jonathan Loesche on Jun 11, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That will mean
A media backlash for Jack and the Jags. The national guys who have no insight are already taking shots. If we flourish without him, they all eat crow. If not, we get to hear the hens cackle all the more.
Vae victis!
by viator on Jun 11, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OTA
These are VOLUNTARY WORKOUTS. There are many players on many teams that aren’t showing up at all. Fred almost never showed up to one so we have no idea whether he was there or not, working or not…
The fact that he’s still showing up to a voluntary workout he can’t fully participate in says a lot to me. He does have the option to just stay home
by pksiv on Jun 12, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't Pull That "Voluntary" Crap
This is a team trying to build chemistry. You’re right, most teams don’t see all of their players at OTA’s, but Jack has gone above what needed to be done by saying they are mandatory. Like I’ve said before, a coach shouldn’t have to build chemistry, it should already be there. Apparently it needed building last season, and Jack wants to prevent that from happening again.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
by Bestjagfan on Jun 12, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea but...
im giving him the benefit of the doubt. he may be able to play through it, but in fact it really is voluntary and the last thing i would want is for him to go into the season injured or even hurt it even worse. why not rest now and be healthy for training camp and the start of the season. he is too big a part of the d to risk more injury
by jags2732 on Jun 12, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing Is...
He really isn’t a huge part of the defense anymore. He’s no more effective in my mind than Landri might be.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
by Bestjagfan on Jun 12, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forget
He’s really good at squishing faces. He’ll pop a Bengal head like a zit.
Vae victis!
by viator on Jun 12, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha.
He’s just representin’
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
by Bestjagfan on Jun 12, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
although his performance has been down...
i would still have to say that he is still a vocal point of the defense and one of the major keys to the defensive success
by jags2732 on Jun 12, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Time...
For some new vocal leaders. My boy Clint, Big Daryl, and Reggie should be the new leaders. On offense it should be David “Green 98” G, Torry “Greatest Show on Turf: Volume 2” Holt, Brad “Took a football to the nutsack” Meester, and Maurice “Not gonna make up a nickname because he might kick my ass” Drew.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
by Bestjagfan on Jun 12, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was my point
He’s actually showing up even though he can’t fully participate. To me that is doing the right thing. It would be far easier to just rest at home and skip the whole thing.
It’s the offseason and everyone is just trying to make more out of this then is really there. Hopefully John doesn’t read this crap because while he’s off his prime, he’s still the best DT the Jags have.
by pksiv on Jun 13, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact remains
That he’s not been up to his old form. He’s taken a multitude of “personal” days off from practice. The lack of dedication has been evident in his performance on game day. If he’s hurt, he has my sympathy. I’m willing to be patient, because he deserves time to recover. I’m familiar with soft tissue injury and the pain it causes. It can be debilitating. On the other hand, you must realize that the discontent expressed here is justified in light of his past. Do you not know what we’re talking about? He’s made a habit of laying down. While his team has practiced, he has not. That’s fairly simple…do you understand?
Vae victis!
by viator on Jun 13, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Balance
I see your point, Pksiv. You’re absolutely right about the fact that this is merely OTAs. If it were training camp we’d have a warranted reason for worry. Right now, it’s more of an issue of dedication to the team first mentality. I think that is why so many fans are holding him accountable. You are also correct in your declaration that more has been made of this than has been necessary. That’s why I wanted to present a “second opinion”. I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Having said that, he’s a man, I’m not going to coddle him.
Vae victis!
by viator on Jun 13, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree, Viator… good medical info…
and from Jacksonville.com… a little tid bit of info to say that John isn’t only sitting around during practice as some believe…
" Defensive tackle John Henderson participated in individual drills Thursday, but didn’t participate in team drills and rode the bike near the end of practice before taking an eight-minute break in the team’s cool zone on a hot day. "
Sean Jax Beach Bum
by cuffs007 on Jun 12, 2009 8:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good article -
If this whole situation is based solely on an injury, then I agree with you. JDR’s reaction may be due to “other reasons” (most recentt performance for example) and this is just the excuse to attempt a “kick in the pants motivation technique”.
We’ll just have to wait and see. I like the info in your article - how the hell did you get John’s X-ray? :)
by OGN on Jun 12, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but
Remember Big Ben not only playing an entire season with a seperated shoulder last year, but also winning a super bowl?
I’m not sure I buy this anyways. How do you get a grade 2 seperation from rolling in the grass?
by sgillespie on Jun 12, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Because he's a big man!
He didn’t slowly lie down and then roll around like a little kid. I’m fairly certain a good percentage of his weight came down on that shoulder.
by pksiv on Jun 12, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Represent Brother...
Great example bro. Ben had the worst offensive line in the league, no running game, a separated shoulder, and he took that offense on his back and went on a Joe Montana-like drive to win the Super Bowl, a perfect representation and summary of the whole season for him.
I’m sure as hell not a doctor, but I don’t see how you can get a separation from falling either. A contusion sure, but a separation?
Rec’d bro…
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
by Bestjagfan on Jun 12, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you fall on your shoulder wrong AND weigh over 300lbs, well… i’m sure it can happen… just being impartial… i ’spose…. maybe he saw a Klondike bar and was lost in wondering what he could do to get it when he fell??
Sean Jax Beach Bum
by cuffs007 on Jun 12, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, maybe for you or me at 300lbs, but for someone who is supposedly a superior athlete, it seems suspect.
Maybe he is really hurt. But I think that just showing up to OTA’s, even if you won’t work out is pointless and makes me think Big John has ulterior motives.
As long as he can convince the team he’s “in”, and they don’t get rid of him, then he’ll get his enourmous salary for the year.
I don’t think Big Laze would get on the open market what the Jags are already paying him.
I hope he is hurt, and that he gets back to practice by next week, or I am going to write a scathing story (you ain’t seen nothin yet) on the underperfroming slacker.
The End Is Nigh... www.infowars.com
by silencecs on Jun 12, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still think he imagined seeing a Klondike bar in the shimmering heat waves
Sean Jax Beach Bum
by cuffs007 on Jun 12, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know i would
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
by TheTealDeal on Jun 15, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Oct. of 07..
I was on a camping trip in NW Pa. and took a fall resulting in a torn Labrum and detatchment of 2 ligaments from the Scapula. With surgery I was out of work for 7 months. This past Feb. I was working out and tore the Superspinatus in the same shoulder. This is a tear in the rotator cuff where the Clavical bone meets the Humourus bone.
Although I could move my arm in any direction, it was very painful to do so, and even limited my range of motion drastically. If I bumped my shoulder, moved my arm a certain way, or flinched my arm, I would be doubled over in pain.
John maybe a superior athlete, but I don’t care who you are, it hurts! Now, as far as non contact drills are concerned, in my mind, there is no excuse for missing that. However, if he is doing drills that involve hitting the ground, and getting up again repeatedly, or anything that would create impact to the shoulder in question, then I understand not participating.
by JagsCub on Jun 13, 2009 12:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"Initially, like many of you, I was under the impression that John was just laying down and trying to dodge the hellish Jacksonville heat and humidity."
Well, the hellish heat hasn’t stopped me from going to high school football conditioning. He can join the club, the people who rather not die everyday in the heat but have to.
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
by TheTealDeal on Jun 13, 2009 6:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Even though he isn't doing any contact drills
he still is participating. If he is injured and still does the bike and shows up, in my opinion that shows character. Hopefully he’ll pass some of his pain to the opposing team’s Qb.
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
by TheTealDeal on Jun 13, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Grade III separation.
I myself had a grade III separation of my AC joint. It was initially painful to do anything. A year into physical therapy I needed to have surgery. The problem I was having is that when I landed on my shoulder (diving for a pass in flag football(i made the catch though)) I moved my collar bone about an inch out its normal position and tore the tendon. I was having a grinding sensation from it being out of place. What they ended up doing was cutting my collar bone down about a half inch, and reinforcing the tendon with some form of metal. It still hurts to sleep on my right side, carry a gallon of milk to long and other things. So what I guess I am saying is that he may very well be hurt. I weigh a whopping 170lbs. 300+ pounds of Big John could do some damage. I also understand that he getd paid millions to play a kids game.
by floridaboiterk on Jun 14, 2009 2:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That sucks man.
I have a bunch of nagging problems from playing sports as well. I’ve broken a vertebrae, dislocated my left shoulder a few times, fractured my patella and tore my ACL, and slipped a disc. I still experience problems with all of those things (except the knee for some reason) like back pain/back injuries, and my shoulder popping out sometimes as I sleep. I’m still young, so I can’t imagine what that will be like as I get older.
On a side note, I’ve been thinking about that, “they get paid millions etc.” thing, and they really don’t make much more on average than anyone else. Their education is in athletics (they’ve also specialized for much longer than anyone in any level of education), and their profession is much more competitive with a much shorter lifespan. Lets assume for a minute that Henderson is the 200th best football player in the NFL. I can say, with a high degree of certainty, that the 200th best performing businessman, lawyer, architect, engineer, or software designer (etc.) makes as much as, and likely more than, he does.
by Kbot on Jun 14, 2009 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most Likely the 200th best
CEO makes more than a football player.
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
by TheTealDeal on Jun 14, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never thought
of it in that manner. That was a good thought provoking idea. But here is a link to the average salarys for lawyers.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2F_Lawyer/Salary
Sorry K, the league minimum for first year rookies ($285,000) is double what the average lawyer with 20+ years experience makes ($114,000).
Heres a link for software engineers:
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary
Surgeons appear to make more but cmon there are only so many people on this earth that you could trust to cut you lol.
by floridaboiterk on Jun 14, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what you mean, but I’m not really talking about experience or ability, more just financial performance. I’m fairly certain that the 200th wealthiest lawyer makes far more than that. Even more important is that the pay of top performers in non-football fields is even more skewed towards the top. Also, the reason that I didn’t include doctors is that many do it out of love for medicine. For example, a friend’s father declined the VP job at Mayo because he preferred to work with patients as opposed to a desk job. Even with that considered, many top level (as in pay) medical personnel make much more than that. Remember, it’s about what they specialized in, not what their current position is. For example, Hideo Kojima created the Metal Gear series, and although he is now an executive, I still see him as a software engineer, because that’s the field he specialized in. Also, keep in mind that the average length of a football career is three years, but that’s irrelevant to Henderson’s case.
by Kbot on Jun 14, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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