So... David Garrard is on pace to break the Jaguars season TD record.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 10:45 AM EDT
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Yeah, so David Garrard is on pace to break the Jacksonville Jaguars franchise record for touchdown passes. That record only stands at 20, which was set by Mark Brunell in 1996 and 2000.
Right now, David Garrard sits at 3rd in the NFL with 9 touchdown passes.
His stats are pretty crazy and yo-yo right now. Click the jump to take a look.
Currently David Garrard sits at:
- 77/116, 66.4%, 789 yards, 9 TD's, 6 INT's, 6.8 YPA, 15 plays of 20+ yards, 90.1 rating, and he's been sacked 12 times.
Here's where he ranks out in the NFL in each of those areas:
| Stat | Rank |
| Attempts | 21st |
| Att/G | 29th |
| Yards | 26th |
| YPA | 19th |
| Comp% | 6th |
| TD | 3rd |
| INT | 3rd |
| 20+ Yd. | 9th |
| Sacks | 3rd |
So, as you can see he ranks all over the place in the NFL statistic wise. His sack number is inflated, given the fact that he was sacked 7 times in the game against the Eagles. Then, you have to consider at least 2 sacks were from scrambles and/or running out of bounds for a loss (one definitely in Buffalo), so that number should look a lot cleaner than it is.
What I found odd/funny about his stats is if you project them out through all 16 games given the sample size we have after 5 games. His numbers would look like this:
- 2,525 yards passing, 29 passing touchdowns, 19 interceptions, and 38 sacks.
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There appears to be
a pretty direct correlation between his performance and that of the offensive line.
When he’s protected and we can run the ball, he’s solid. When we can’t run and he’s not protected, he’s been terrible.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
even further....
When we make him throw the ball too many times, instead of focusing on the run…..he isnt successful.
In the run first game plan, David can be successful. If the pass game is at the center stage its a long day…..
The Eagles game is the only game you can really say he didn’t have protection, and that wasn’t even until the second half.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 11:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And the Eagles game is his only bad game this year. I know you count San Diego as a bad game, but his performance was not bad, just his stats. He had one stupid INT, the other 3 were not poor decisions or execution.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know...
He played pretty poorly against SD, even though I agree the INTs weren’t all on him.
A lot of things went wrong
in San Diego.
In addition to the 4 INT’s, MJD Fumbled. MSW Fumbled. The defense was a sieve…
The 21-6 lead and the Jags being limited to about 30 yards rushing at the half pretty much forced the Jags into throwing the ball in the 2nd half.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
It doesn't mean that Garrard played well though
Sometimes you are forced to do things because your being dominated. Garrard might have been forced to do things because of the teams failings in other areas but he still did them very poorly. I think the only bright spots in that game were Rashad and the D-line.
Show me where I wrote that
DG Played well in the SD game ?
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
So he played mediocre?
You said he didn’t play bad, so for that I am sorry in assuming you thought he played well.
I do think he played poorly though, I thought the only interception that was ok was the first one because the DB made a really great play. I don’t think hes excused from tipped balls and he made himself one dimensional by not using his legs or looking deeps as much as I thought he should. JMO.
Meant more for conservative
my bad on the reply.
Are you serious?
Even Dirk Koetter said he made poor decisions in that game.
There’s no way to slice a 4 INT as not a poor performance, that’s a lot of spinning.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 2:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think we need to temper things a bit on this one
He was awful in San Diego. He didn’t get pulled for his own safety, he got pulled due to lack of performance. Only reason he went back in was due to injury and he cleaned up the table that McCown set for him. In that game, he was pressing like I’ve never seen him press before and it was embarrassing and maddening to watch. And recall that there was quite a few people who thought he lost it and could never re-discover it after the Philly game. If Boumann wasn’t a senior citizen he’d have seen some action against Philly.
BUT, on the other hand if he had a performance like Drew Brees had the other day or Favre last night or Carson Palmer Sunday, the fans here would be calling for his head.
Sorry, but if we’re going to laud him for a workmanlike performance the other day and a stellar one against Indy and Denver then we need to point out his crap sandwiches in San Diego and against Philly. It’s only fair.
No spinning or lauding.
It is what it is. I watch lots of games. And I watch lots of quarterbacks that Jags fans think are better than DG make worse mistakes under less pressure, but for some reason DG gets overly-scrutinized. You all would never stand for DG taking the risks that other ‘better’ QB’s take. For example, I believe it was the same week as the San Diego game, Matt Schaub threw a bomb to Andre Johnson in the end zone. AJ had to stop and wait on the ball at the front of the end zone. He then boxed out the CB and out jumped him to catch the ball. Woohoo! Schaub is the man! DG underthrows Underwood on a bomb by a few yards and Underwood crawls up into the fetal position while the CB makes a maginificent leaping grab, and DG is garbage. He can’t win if that is how we judge him. I say kudos for taking a risk and going deep. When you do that you are going to win some and lose some. Hopefully your receiver helps you out. Worst case it gets intercepted and it is kind of like a punt. I would rather that INT than on a bubble screen.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you're losing
I know it was a general example but you can’t compare Schaub to Garrard or Underwood to Andre Johnson. There are so many things wrong with that analogy. And I was going to say don’t compare him to Manning either but you went ahead and did so. Yikes.
DG’s game will not allow him to take risks. This ain’t Conference USA and he’s not matching wits with UAB or UCF. We’ve dissected his game to death and I think there is a near unanimous sentiment that his ideal game favors a very very elementary West Coast offense where he only has one side of the field to read and a power running game with a road grading offensive line. Nothing at all wrong with elementary if it results in wins. He is a game manager. It is what it is.
He’s never going to be that guy that you can count on for 300 yards 3 tds and a pick like I said earlier and you know what? There’s nothing at all wrong with it if you’re winning ball games. We’ve broken 30 points 2 weeks in a row.
Look, my only standard for Garrard is the scoreboard. Not every quarterback can be “elite”. I’m not going to be a Prisco parrot and say that you have to be Dan Fouts to win in the NFL. That’s ridiculous. Aikman, Stabler, and Bradshaw won quite a bit with less than stellar numbers.
Before Moss, Brady was what, a 250 yards per game 2 TD quarterback?
Maybe he shouldn't have used examples
but we see WR’s bail out their QB’s all the time and the better QB’s are praised for the great pass when it’s really the great WR. And because we watch our QB so much and the past few years he’s had pretty bad WR’s, he’s of course going to get more scrutiny.
I have Randy Moss on my Fantasy team and I was ecstatic when he was traded to the Vikings because I know Brett is a gunslinger and will throw the ball deep to Randy even if he’s covered. Whereas they were moving away from that in NE.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
by pksiv on Oct 12, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
another example
Peyton Manning makes a bad throw into coverage and David Jones misses a guaranteed interception that would have sealed the game for the Jags. DG throws a close one at the end of the game that was almost intercepted. Guess who gets scrutinized? David Jones and David Garrard. Not Peyton Manning. How many times did I have to read “David tried to give it away”. Oh, and now is when you get to pull out the line – “Are we really going to compare DG to PM?” Don’t bother, I did it for you. What you are obviously saying is that you have a different set of standards for DG.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
How often do these things happen to Manning/Schaub?
How often for Garrard?
There’s the difference. I dont see how Pointing out top tier QBs occasionally make the same mistakes somehow alleviates the situation given Garrard rarely plays at their “normal” level.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 3:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Judging by the stats you put up, he is 3rd in INT’s. I think you already answered your question in your article.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, after posting I went to nfl.com to see the numbers and saw that. I also saw how amazingly similar his stats are to Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers even with the 2 ‘bad’ games out of 5.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you implying Garrard is just as good?
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No
I am saying that you claim that bad things happen to DG a lot. And I am saying that their are 2 QB’s who you would probably druel over who have the same number of TD’s, INT’s and QB rating.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
And? Are you contending there’s no difference? I don’t see the point. I’m not saying bad things happen a lot to Garrard. I said they happen more often, because he’s not as good as those QBs.
You think they’ll be close through 16 games?
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t know, probably not, but we will see.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I seem to recall Peyton Manning
having a 6 INT game a couple years ago.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
I seem to recall him winning at least 11 games, throwing for nearly 4,000 yards and 28+ TDs every year, too.
Again, that’s the difference. Manning’s poor games are few and far between. He’s afforded a poor game to be glossed over, Garrard hasn’t. Saying he’s done it too is irrelevant if Garrard doesn’t play at the same level on a normal basis.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I seem to recall him winning at least 11 games, throwing for nearly 4,000 yards and 28+ TDs every year, too.
Again, that’s the difference. Manning’s poor games are few and far between. He’s afforded a poor game to be glossed over, Garrard hasn’t. Saying he’s done it too is irrelevant if Garrard doesn’t play at the same level on a normal basis.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And Garrard
isn’t on a team that was designed to play at that level. At no time under JDR has this offense been set up to throw the ball 40 times in a game.
The Jaguars are a run-first team. It took the Peyton Manning several years to realize he needed a running game if for no other reason than to let his defense get some rest.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
So then you contend if you swapped Manning and Garrard their performance would decrease/improve that significantly?
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you've taken "DG apologist" to a whole new level here
DG is not anywhere near Manning’s league. Sorry to break the newsflash to you.
Go back and read my first post in this thread
You know the one where I said, when he’s not protected and we can’t run the ball, HE’s BEEN TERRIBLE.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
We are not saying he is like Manning. We are saying he is not bad and does not deserve to be treated as if he is bad just because he doesn’t put up the numbers that Manning does. Think about it. Who is REALLY comparing him to Manning. Someone has to attack before someone can defend. Get it?
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Where has anyone treated him as if he’s bad here in this article/thread of comments?
And you brought up Peyton Manning before anyone else. If you don’t want him compared to him, why bring it up?
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Next time I will refer to him as Exhibit B and then maybe you will approach the argument with some logic instead of outright dismissing it.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s the argument? Manning has bad days too? Im pretty sure I didn’t disagree with that.
I’m simply saying the reason Garrard gets more of the focus and Manning doesn’t is because it occurs more to one that the other.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree
that Garrard has more bad days than Manning, but I don’t think the gap between them is as great as most are making it. Garrard throws 3 TD’s and is described as workmanlike while Peyton against the Chiefs looked terrible(he had like 4 other potential int’s dropped) and the only thing anyone notices is that he won.
OK,
Someone suggests that DG’s bad days have happened when the OLine is having a bad day. And you jump in with : “The Eagles game is the only game you can really say he didn’t have protection, and that wasn’t even until the second half.” That is where I came into the conversation. I have bit my tongue for weeks. Also, you were quick to point out that the sack number is inflated (I was screaming mad when he ran out of bounds Sunday), yet do you not think his INT number is inflated? I can think of 3 INT’s off the top of my head that were either tipped balls or balls thrown while being crushed by an unblocked rusher. That is 1/2 of his INT’s right there.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
You're wasting your breath
despite the fact that nobody has ever tried to say the DG is in PM’s league, you’re not even allowed to say he’s a decent QB around here without getting ridiculed.
To me, the key going forward is how does the o-line hold up against the likes of TEN and the NYG. Because if they play as well as they did against Philly, than it’s not all on DG.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
No ones ridiculing anyone right now.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dirk Koetter himself said 3 of the 4 INTs in SD were on Garrard.
The Eagles game was on Garrard. The one in the Bills game likely would have been intercepted if it were not tipped, as there were 3 defenders around Lewis on the play.
There’s 5 of 6. Make that 4 of 6 if you disagree about the Buffalo game.
And, Philly was the only game where pressure was the problem. I said it was inflated because of that game AND him sacking himself.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Eagles game
was on the o-line.
You keep trying to say that the pressure didn’t come until the 2nd half but Garrard was sacked the 2nd time he dropped back to pass.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
I’m not denying there wasn’t pressure in the first half. The majority of it was in the 2nd. He was sacked 3 (really 2) times in the first half.
One of them on 3rd and 17 he ran backwards and got sacked. Not very good pass pro, but he didn’t help. The other on 3rd and six was his audible to a run that was ruled a sack.
The OL playing poor and the defense an everything else playing poor in SD doesn’t make Garrard play any less poor in those two games.
Im not exactly sure why this spiraled into how good or bad Garrard is.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
See that's the big difference
you always assume that the play is going to result in something bad. Always. I’d be willing to bet that DB’s drop interceptions far more than they catch them.
As someone mentioned earlier, and the reason PM came into this conversation. Peyton throws what should be a game ending INT and there’s no big mention. DG throws an incomplete pass that might have been a pick 6 and you can’t keep it out of the story, even though he played very well the rest of the game.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
That’s why I said 5 of 6 or 4 of 6. The defender very well could have dropped it, but ultimately it was an interception because it was directed to an ill-advised area.
Maybe you should just get over it, then. You’re way too sensitive about David Garrard. Not everything is an attack on him. Bouncing a pass off a defenders chest right before the game winning kick is kind of a big deal. It might not be to you, but it is to me. I said he played virtually mistake free, and mentioned the one mistake. Again, if it bothers you that much perhaps you need some thicker skin.
I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating: if David Garrard were better, he wouldn’t get the criticism he does. If been rather NICE to Garrard through his two tough games, simply stating his play needs to improve. If I really had it out for him, I’d have been calling for his benching, etc.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 12, 2010 4:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In response to pressure:
If he tucks it and runs – he can’t stay in the pocket.
If he stands in and throws with pressure in his face and the ball gets tipped – he made a poor decision.
If he throws short – he is “checkdown Charlie”.
He can’t win with you guys.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know how to respond
to the “if it had not been tipped, it likely would have been intercepted” logic. That is incredible.
by Conservative on Oct 12, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Watch the replay. There are 3 defenders in the area of the receiver he’s throwing at. Chris Kelsay (#90) cuts the route and is standing in front of Lewis when the ball is thrown. If it’s not tipped, the ball is coming right at him. It’s not like it’s an outlandish assumption he catches a pass coming right to him.
I said it’s either 5 of 6 or 4 of 6.
You mean like the one the Colts DB dropped ?
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
Ok (I think we're talking about the BUF INT)
And I just watched it again a few times on NFL.com
If that ball isn’t tipped, Marcedes Lewis is wide open behind the LB that intercepted the pass. There’s not a 3rd Bills player within 10 yards and the 2nd guy is a good 5 yards away.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
Number 90, Chris Kelsey, a big white OLB is in front of Lewis when the ball is tipped. He cuts the route as the ball is thrown to step in front of it.
But, yes. He could have dropped it like Kelvin Hayden did. Again, it’s not like it’s a crazy assumption it would have been caught.
You can't possibly
know that the pass wouldn’t have made it past the LB and into the receivers hands.
I do like how now you’re changing your story from 3 defenders in the area though since that is something the video clearly shows.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.
I think there's more of a correlation to him being who we thought he was..
instead of what he is not. I’ve said it a million times, he’s not going to be that 28 for 40 350 yards passing 3 tds and maybe a pick type of quarterback. Hell Brunell wasn’t either. Only qb in Jacksonville history who was like that plays for the Sharks in Arena Ball.
He is at his best when he is a homeless man’s Michael Vick with a running game. Safe passes, a steady risk averse offense where he can take off running if the protection breaks down is his type of game. He’s at his best when he can just do instead of process and think.
Some guys the game just doesn’t slow down for them no matter how much they claim it does.
the game is won in the trenches...
simple as that…if the Oline give DG time, he will curve up a defense like anything other QB. The fact that DG is a scrambing QB makes him more deadly…don’t forget he also has a rushing TD…
One life to live, live it to the fullest...
WTF!? I know I rarely post on here (even though I’ve read the posts on here regularly for well over a year), but come on. The Jags have consecutive wins for the first time since the losing streak started last season, we’re seeing improvement with new/young players at a rate that hasn’t happened around here since the Coughlin era, and there’s a pivotal division game next monday night. Why are we even debating the skills of our starting qb? What purpose does it serve? He is our quarterback, like it or not. Let’s focus the attention and aggression on the Titans. WE. ARE. JAGUARS!
by Jaghawk on Oct 12, 2010 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well said
This Garrard debate is getting old, especially since we’ve won the last two games, and Garrard has played pretty well in both of them. He’s not the best quarterback, nor is the the worst quarterback, he’s somewhere in the middle. I’m happy that he’s been able to bounce back the last few weeks after a couple of very bad games.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
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