Was 2008 the worst draft in Jaguars, possibly NFL history?
by Alfie Crow on Oct 27, 2010 2:45 PM EDT
in Jacksonville Jaguars News
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With the demotion of Derrick Harvey being made virtually official today, it got me thinking about the 2008 NFL Draft. Gregg Rosenthal of ProFootballTalk.com and Rotoworld.com sparked the thought with this tweet:
The Jaguars gave up the No. 26 overall pick, 2 third-rounders, and a fourth to get Derrick Harvey. Who doesn't start. Harvey is the only player left from Jags' 2008 class. Coach-killing trade.
Not only did the Jaguars give that up for Derrick Harvey, but they also swapped 2nd round picks with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, gave up their 5th round pick, and gave up a 2009 7th round pick for linebacker Quentin Groves. Groves was shipped to the Oakland Raiders this off-season for a 4th round pick.
Oof.
It's pretty easy to argue that the 2008 draft for the Jacksonville Jaguars is one of the worst drafts in NFL history, and by far the worst draft in team history.
Let's look at it real quick.
| Jaguars 2008 Draft Class | Round | Where are they now? |
| Derrick Harvey, DE | 1st (8) | Benched, Backing up Jeremy Mincey |
| Quentin Groves, DE/LB | 2nd (52) | Traded, Starting for Oakland Raiders |
| Thomas Williams, LB | 5th (155) | Cut, Back-up on Buffalo Bills |
| Trae Williams, CB | 5th (159) | Cut, Back-up on Tampa Bay Bucs |
| Chauncey Washington, RB | 7th (213) | Cut, Back-up on St. Louis Rams |
As you can see, the Jaguars have a single player remaining from that draft, and that lone player just got sent to the bench.
The real kicker? Baltimore used the package of draft picks it got from the Jaguars to trade back up and get their franchise quarterback, Joe Flacco and linebacker Tavares Gooden. Houston used one of the picks received from Baltimore via Jacksonville to draft Duane Brown in the first round and Steve Slaton in the third round.
If someone can find a worse draft than the Jaguars 2008 draft in the history of the modern draft, please send it to me. Profootballtalk.com called the Jaguars 2008 draft a "Coach Killer," which is true, but it also came on the heels of giving David Garrard his contract extension. This team thought it was a few pieces away after getting knocked out of the playoffs by the undefeated New England Patriots and took a swing at the fences.
Not only did the Jaguars have one of the worst drafts in NFL history, but you have to remember the free agents they signed as well. The Jaguars gave big money to cornerback Drayton Florence and wide receiver Jerry Porter, both of which were cut the very next season after little to no contribution to the football team. Porter signed a 6-year, $30 million contract with $10 million in guaranteed money, while Florence signed a 6-year $36 million deal with roughly $12 million in guaranteed money.
They struck out, big time.
(thanks kterr, for reminding me about the free agents)
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Nothing went right in 2008
Terrible Draft, Terrible Free-Agent Signings, Terrible Season….3 strikes
"I’m going to punish him. If he hits me, fine, but if I catch him, believe me, I’m going to get the better shot." - Fred Taylor
It wasn't a "coach killing" draft
It was a personnel director killing draft though. That offseason almost single-handedly got Shack Harris fired. Also, perhaps those players weren’t the worst in Jaguars’ history, but the cost at which those players were acquired was the worst.
Jack Del Rio had a part in personnel.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 27, 2010 6:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
but he hasn’t been fired yet. Also, I don’t think the personnel decisions have been put on Jack Del Rio’s shoulders as much as, say, Tom Coughlin got blamed for the Jaguars of the early 2000s. Regardless, I really hope that the lesson learned from that draft improves this franchise for decades to come.
this team was Tom Coughlin's baby.
With the success came increased power and Wayne did not seem one to cede it until it became apparent the fanbase was turning on Coughlin big time. He got stale.
In my opinion, our 15 year track is very similar to the Dallas Texans/Kansas City Chiefs, Super Bowl appearances withstanding, of course. Stram had total power, then the team pretty much bottomed out at year 13 and then resurged when they signed Marty and drafted Derrick Thomas.
It is a coach-killing draft,
because in all likeliness, JDR will be fired because of the lack of talent on this team.
In Gene We Trust.
by MoveThoseChains on Oct 27, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
So..
you dont think JDR, has had a fair shake then so to speak?
WE ARE JAGUARS.......FEAR OUR ROAR!!!!!!
For the brief moments that the team had servicable talent, there have been good results,
like the overachieving defense and team of 2005, or the amazing offense and rapidly decaying defense of 2007.
The front office tried to rebuild around a new quarterback and passing game. All of those picks (minus Marcedes) were busts. And then they went to Garrard, and Garrard is what he is. And then when the front office tried to give JDR defensive talent, those were busts too (Nelson and the recently-benched Harvey). So no, I don’t think Jack has been given a fair shake talentwise, and now that there is a competent front office in place, I’d like to give Jack a chance to finally take advantage of that. I shudder at the thought of him coaching another team with real talent that knocks the Jaguars out of the playoffs over and over.
In Gene We Trust.
by MoveThoseChains on Oct 28, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I couldnt agree more
It’s exactly what I have been saying for some time. Give the coaches some talent to work with and actually coach up.
by ScottyD4Life on Oct 28, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Jack was very involved in the talent decisions while Harris was here. He shouldn’t be treated as if he didn’t get a fair shake, he’s part of the shake.
As a personnel man, you're right
But that job was taken from him 2 years ago. Should that still factor in to his job status as a coach?
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by Adam Stites on Oct 28, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know how much involved though...
I’ve always heard that he never agreed with Shack on the first round picks. That he always wanted somebody else than who was drafted. Especially Leftwich.
What gets me about the whole avalanche in talent we had is we don’t know who said what about what guys. Who said what behind closed doors? How much of a role did JDR, and Gene even, play? Maybe you do Alfie with your increased connections, and if you do, I would love to know what the real scenario was. All I know is all I’ve ever heard is that JDR and Gene Smith were allowed opinions and a seat at the table, but had NO say on pulling the trigger on first round picks and trades.
WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?
According to Vic, Gene took some responsibility for drafting Harvey and Groves
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
Yeah I saw Vic said that
But I gotta go back and listen to Monday’s show again to see exactly what he said. I remember Gene saying that he could only look forward and didn’t want to talk about Shack years other than to learn from how they as the entire GM/scouting department made mistakes/how they operated.
I’m sure as the head guy now who was in the department he is goin to step up as a measure of integrity. If Gene missed that badly on those guys, then that’s a huge miss for a scout guy like Gene with all the talent that came out of those first couple rounds in that draft.
WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?
Everybody is going to miss on some picks, even Gene
The jury is still out on Cox and Britton, and who knows how this year’s class is going to turn out.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
and Cleo Lemon
don’t know why we could get Miami’s QB after they went 1-15 that year… and i believe we gave him pretty good money as well.
I think it
Was $3 million guaranteed
by Slawsc on Oct 27, 2010 9:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe Gene can get trade value
as he miraculously did for Groves.
My hope is that we’re in on the ground floor of something pretty special. I guess I’m just a somewhat reluctant optimist. But if you lead from the top and build from the bottom, I have confidence we’ll see steady improvement.
Section 442, RIP
Jaguars, most knowledgable fans in the NFL.
by unhipcat on Oct 27, 2010 3:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
not by a longshot
The New Orleans Saints 1999 draft was the worst by far. The entire draft to the Redskins plus a 1st and a 3rd in 2000. Ditka crippled that team for quite a while based on his infatuation for a running back who already had way too many carries under his belt. Terrible contract, horrible agent equals player with more problems than anyone knew or bothered to uncover. It’s a miracle he got it together.
In my view if not for Katrina, the 1999 draft would have been the impetus that turned that team into the San Antonio Saints.
Then again, our 1999 draft wasn’t that good either.
1 26 26 Fernando Bryant Cornerback Alabama
2 25 56 Larry Smith Defensive Tackle Florida State
3 27 88 Anthony Cesario Guard Colorado State
4 26 121 Kevin Landolt Defensive Tackle West Virginia
5 26 150 Jason Craft Cornerback Colorado State
6 13 182 Emarlos Leroy Defensive Tackle Georgia
7 36 242 Dee Moronkola Defensive Back Washington State
7 40 246 Chris White Defensive End Southern
Bryant underachieved and of the others, the only one I recall who did anything was Craft. Notice how all but Chris White were from BCS schools?
Colorado St isn’t a BCS school, FYI
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by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 27, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I stand corrected
I meant non HBC or D-2 (fottball subdivision whatever the hell they call it) Basically that draft was the antithesis of the Gene Smith MO.
I still can’t believe the Jaguars beat the Colts this year.
You should read 12th Horseman. Do it.
I also have Twitter.
I cant believe you got your own blog.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
by Bestjagfan on Oct 27, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because your writing is garbage.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
who do you think was a worse draft pick?
Harvey or Soward?
frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba
"I'm smacking you with the truth......" - Me
I think Harvey might be the worst draft pick of allllllllll time............
frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba
"I'm smacking you with the truth......" - Me
At least Harvey didn’t need a DD to get to practice..?
by Alfie Crow on Oct 27, 2010 4:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nah
Harvey doesn’t do what his salary dictates he should do in rushing the passer, but he isn’t a bad run DE. Hes at least a serviceable player, as oppose to Mr. Soward….
As a Lions fan I have numerous candidates to refute your argument.
Charles Rogers WR as a second pick. Reggie Rogers DE as a seventh pick. Andre Ware QB as a seventh pick.
These three barely played any NFL football, let alone playing it for a few years very poorly.
I have more examples if you need them.
I feel bad for you guys
Millen destroyed that team by piss poor drafting. At least you’re on the right track with some pretty solid picks.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
Two of the three guys I listed were picked pre Millen.
So evaluating talent has been a problem in Detroit for a long time. Unfortunately.
Just looking at what we lost to get Harvey and his production..........
At least Soward did us a favor and kept smoking
frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba
"I'm smacking you with the truth......" - Me
Those are the kinds of decisions that destroy teams
I can’t criticize Harvey for a stupid mistake that Harris made. At least Harvey stayed out of trouble off the field.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
Worse pick?
Harvey
Worse player? Soward
by Ewdtrey on Oct 27, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know why
but I had no idea that Drayton Florence had gotten paid so much. I thought he was paid marginally less than the deal Porter got… eep that’s bad.
I still
Think we should have kept Florence. He played injured all year, and wasn’t as bad as everyone liked to make him out to be. He would be helping now.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
Haha, he wasn’t injured all year. Trust me. He’s awful, especially at that price.
by Alfie Crow on Oct 27, 2010 7:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just
A feeling I’ve had since they released him. He may not have been injured all year, but I know he had a groin problem or something for the greater part of it. And with the defense we had that year, hardly anyone looked good.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
Definitely
not worth the money he was paid. But I do seem to remember him having nagging injuries all year.
In baseball, I call that being put on the shit DL
“You’re playing just terribly, so let’s pretend you have an injury. We’ll stow you away for 15 days and see if you figure out how not to suck.”
In Gene We Trust.
by MoveThoseChains on Oct 28, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess Derrick Harvey was the defensive Jamarcus Russell
as in he got picked so high based on Big bowl performance.
In hindsight
Mind Numbingly bad
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Real fans don’t need a reason.
Screw the Media, We win!
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Where harveyismyboy in all this?
I figured he would have had 20 relies to everyone comments . I guess now even he is conceding defeat.
by Slawsc on Oct 27, 2010 9:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
He may be a terrible pick for the price but at least he is not a total bust...
I mean he has started every game from midway in his rookie season to this year. I just watched the draft coverage and Mel Kiper said that this was “the best pick so far in the draft” a powerful DE that is all around good and ready to deliver immediately. More evidence not to listen to the national media… I digress and just think that we have a DE that is not producing but I would not want to jump ship yet because most of his contract is guaranteed not saving the Jags any cash. He is still very young. Has the frame of a good DE and just needs to work on his first step, and football IQ. Also, he may get the kick in the groin by taking his spot away that he may come in and whoop some tail. <- In my dreams but hey I have seen stranger things.
He's got a good first step
He’s usually got decent IQ when referring to scheme. What he doesn’t have is savvy. What he doesn’t do well is play strong when running the arc.
I just hope we dont cut him and then he leads the league in sacks.........
frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba
"I'm smacking you with the truth......" - Me
I don't think we have to worry about that
and if we do then I will officially join the many fans who hate the coaches with a passion.
I’m not holding my breath for that one either.
Derrick Johnson was considered a bust til this year...
Derrick Johnson of KC has been mentioned a few times I think by Vic recently. He was considered a bust and now this year he’s doing well. I think 3 years is a long time to wait on a guy, but if the Jags can afford to, I’d like to see them hold on to Harvey just a season longer. He was graded as a first rounder anyway, even if he was taken a little high at 8th overall.
The sad thing is
if we cut him, that does in no way make the team better. He’s at least the 3rd best DE.
2008
I want to erase that season (except maybe the 2 Colts and 1 Broncos game) from my memory.
Life without knowledge is death in disguise
Follow me on twitter @iktriad
by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 28, 2010 7:44 AM EDT reply actions
I hope too
(although I like this draft much better then the ’08s…) So far the Big FA signing is paying off big time too.
Life without knowledge is death in disguise
Follow me on twitter @iktriad
by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 28, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Isnt the message here..
.. that you should never trade THAT much on an unknown player. Rookies are rookies and no one really have a super clue on who will make it in the NFL and who will not.
The fact is that out of a typical first draft round only very few (5-10) will become NFL studs and no expert can pick them. So, with that information, use your picks accordingly.
On a draft note, the first serious 2011 drafts are coming out
Walterfootball has us currently with the 4th pick –
1st Round – Prince Amukamara (CB)
2nd Round – Deunta Williams (FS)
3rd Round – Nathan Enderle (QB)
Its waaaay to early to talk draft but just thought this was interesting.
"I’m going to punish him. If he hits me, fine, but if I catch him, believe me, I’m going to get the better shot." - Fred Taylor
May be early.....
and I still believe we end up with a later pick than 4, but it supports the interesting question that will face this team come draft time. I believe in following BAP, but on a needs basis, what is more important…..QB or DB? I still hold hope that we get some life out of David, Trent, or Todd so that we are serviceable at the QB position, and not pressed so hard into the need for a QB, not saying I would not take one if it worked out on our draft board. I just do not want to have to abandon BAP, and a great safety or corner, to get a QB. Keep in mind, very few QB’s can always be counted on to score nearly every time, which is the case with our current secondary, so no matter who got drafted, we would still struggle. Who knows, maybe our current DB’s will get it figured out now that the revolving door has at least slowed down.
I don't think Gene is ready to trade Harvey just yet.
I think Harvey can still play, Coach Cullen still believes in him.
Well who thought we were going to get starters from two 5s and a 7th.
Really the only guys from that draft were Harvey and Groves. Just ignore the others.
Late round picks can be productive too
Sensabaugh was a 5th round pick, and McCray was a 7th , and they ended up being decent starters.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
The information on the players doesn't seem to be fully correct
Thomas Williams is on the Bills practice squad, not a back-up, Trae Williams and Chauncey Washington were both waived before the season and are currently not in the league.
Coming out of that draft
I thought, I don’t really like any of these players. Especially not Washington and Thomas Williams. Never considered Groves for our system. And I never thought Harvey was an option. I don’t fault us too much for trying to get the guys we wanted. The problem I had with trading up was, not getting value out of the players we picked. Had Harvey turned into Mario Williams and Groves into someone at least as good as Cliff Avril I think we wouldn’t screwed the way were are on defense.
I still
Don’t understand why we drafted Thomas Williams. He was a backup in college. I know it was at a talented program with three stud linebackers but a backup is the kind of guy you sign undrafted if you want to take a chance on him.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
+1
I think Harris was mislead by his feelings. It’s easy to like someone like Williams. But you have to restrain yourself. Obviously he got to close to winning programs.
Personally, I like to pick losers. Sounds wrong, I know. But if you(prospects) look good on tape when you’re getting your ass handed to you, I know you got the heart to play in the league when the going gets tough. Lots of players look good when playing around other good players. It’s hard to look good when you have to drag everyone with you. A CB that can cover well with no pass rush in front of him is rare and should be looked for. Alterraun Verner was a guy that could do that.
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