Joe Haden
by jags2732 on Mar 17, 2010 4:34 PM EDT
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Reportidly he ran a 4.42(some say as high as 4.39) a the Florida Pro Day. Do you guys think that he now becomes a strong possibility for the Jags at 10 again? Before the combine he could have been a top 10 pick but then his poor times dropped him down alot. Now that his 40 times now reflect better along with his game speed, anyone think he can be that shutdown corner that people predicted at first?
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Right now I think he's back to Cleveland at 7 unforturnately.
by Jonathan Loesche on Mar 17, 2010 4:51 PM EDT reply actions
Can you explain your reasoning on yoru opinion Slvrgun?
Usually you have sound logic, I just want to hear it concerning Joe Haden.
His poor time at the combine only dropped him in the eyes of the media and fans
No scouts or NFL staff took too much stock in one bad day running the 40. They watch tape and the player. Just thought I needed to say that.
Now, what his times did today is ruin Jacksonville’s chance of getting him. Unless Berry is on the board at 7, Haden has almost no chance of falling to 10. Really, it sucks. It stinks. But we knew it would happen. He wasn’t going to have a bad day running.
Question: did they take time off the clocks because of the very wet field? Anyone know?
by alwaysforgiven821 on Mar 17, 2010 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
Several people on twitter said most scouts took .05 off to adjust for the wet field, so Spikes 5.0 will be recorded as a 4.95. Still atrocious for a LB
by Jonathan Loesche on Mar 17, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I had expected him to run in the 4.7 range. Not near 5.
by alwaysforgiven821 on Mar 17, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Him running a
5 plus forty makes me think I can be an NFL player now. haha
I’m smart, tough, and athletic. Shoot I can run a sub 5 40 in mud with jeans and heels on. haha
i was there at Florida pro day
I personally clocked him at 4.46
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Driver of the "Cut Reggie Nelson" Bandwagon.
Winner of the 2010 Chad Pennington Award
nope
the field was still in good condition during the 40 yard dash, after the drill it got a little worn
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Driver of the "Cut Reggie Nelson" Bandwagon.
Winner of the 2010 Chad Pennington Award
thats including slow reaction time
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Driver of the "Cut Reggie Nelson" Bandwagon.
Winner of the 2010 Chad Pennington Award
That .05 deduction is bullshit.
They should have ran indoors if it rained that bad. How can you just arbitrarily take .05 off?
They do it all the time
Personally if someones time doesn’t change, like Dunlap’s didn’t, you shouldn’t be subtracting any time from anyone’s 40. What I like to do is find someone on the team that ran at the combine and the pro day and add whatever time he shaved off to the player that only ran at the proday.
I guess.
You’re a lot higher on Haden than I am. I think he’s a first rounder but he ain’t 10. I’d actually take Earl Thomas over Haden. But anyway I still stand behind my feelings that he is about a 4.5 to 4.6 guy. Not slow but not blazing fast like say D. Cox (legit 4.3).
I'd take
Thomas over Haden too. But I wouldn’t be upset if we picked Haden at 10. I would be upset if we picked McClain or JPP. I would be dissatisfied if we drafted Spiller, Morgan, Bryant, or Claussen. I would go with it though.
Players I would say ok to, but wouldn’t be excited about are Dan Williams, a LT other than Okung, Dez Bryant.
Players I would get excited about: Thomas, Berry, Okung, Price(Just because I really like this player, and I know what he could do for our pass rush), Brandon Graham, Suh, McCoy.
No @ 10. I don't put much stock in "pro days".
I’m watching film and just don’t see it.
He had a killer pass rush and very good safeties behind him at Florida.
He also played the short side of the field.
Don’t believe he has the recovery speed to stay with Johnson et al.
NFL had the best equipment at the combine.
Doesn’t look fluid.
Is not fast.
Dad makes excuses about strained back to help with damage control. Haden had months to prepare for 40.
So your saying........
You like Major Wright and Carlos Dunlap?
“He had a killer pass rush and very good safeties behind him at Florida.”
frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba
"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me
i honestly don’t think that a half a second difference in 40 times matter…. who would you rather have?… a Revis type corner who ran a 4.8 or a ____ (pick your own worst cornerback)__ who runs a 4.3?… would you really take the crappy CB just because he’s a half second faster?… how many times have we all read that the best player at whatever position ran a slow 40 at the combine or pro day, but has become the best freakin’ whatever this season? i can also understand that a half second faster guy on the opposing team will always beat the slower guy, but that’s why teams prepare by game planning and watching film of the opponent… ok, done ranting… go ahead, knock me down about it.
Sean Jax Beach Bum
so, you would want the fast, yet crappy corner… in which case he would get burned just as much as the slower, yet better cover cb… see what i mean? it’s a wash at that point… faster doesnt necessarily mean better… slower doesnt necessarily mean worse… in some cases
Sean Jax Beach Bum
combine speed and game speed are 2 totally different things..........
frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba
"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me
You're right.
Running in underwear is easier than running in pads. So with pads Haden is even slower.
Thanks I understand now.
No Willis.......
His instincts and intelligence can make him seem faster on the field by allowing him to be in the right places. Also, the adrenaline of being on the field in an actual game can make you play faster and harder. You pay too much attention to this combine. That’s why Darius Heyward-Bey made the Pro Bowl this year right?
frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba
"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me
if you can't understand what im saying.......
I doubt you played anything. So you mean to tell me that there is absolutely no difference between clocked speed and game speed? You act like you are the only person who played football. I played too!!!! So what??? Write an article and put a poll about game speed and clock speed, and I guarantee that 95% of the people will agree with me. Nevermind. I’ll do it, smart guy. Oh yeah, you never answered my question about Wright and Dunlap.
frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba
"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me
yea there is a difference.
You have about 15 pounds of equipment thus you are slower. Now some are better at adjusting to the added weight but that still goes back to being slower. You run faster in underwear. You act like the adrenaline thing is suppose dramatically increase speed and that it is only present during a game. You don’t think those kids at the NFL combine are getting adrenaline rushes with all those scouts there?
well look at the poll............
100% of the vote says “There is a difference between game speed and clock speed”. Something you said made no sense at all. Me myself, I’m faster when I see someone with a ball in their hands, and I’m supposed to hit him or take that ball away, even with pads on. Again, this does not apply to everyone. But you can’t count a player out from being elite for running a "slow’ time in the 40. And when are you gonna answer my question about Major Wright and Carlos Dunlap????
frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba
"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me
Really
speed is a little overrated in a game that’s played within the first 15 yards anyhow. Shoot, I’ve had to cover guys that run a real 4.5, somehow I get the job done even though I’m probably significantly slower.
Revis comparisions need to stop.
This kid isn’t any better than Derek Cox.
All the best corners in the league are fast.
Bailey
Asoughma
Mathis
Harris
Revis
all run between 4.3 and 4.4. And yes it makes a hell of a difference.
Only way I’d want Haden out there is if we had an unstoppable pass rush.
And most people believe that Haden is a high 4.3 guy.
Everyone has bad days. Haden had one. I’d put money to the fact that Haden will be a better corner in the league than Cox.
by alwaysforgiven821 on Mar 18, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Each to their own
We’ll see who’s right in a couple of seasons, though. :)
by alwaysforgiven821 on Mar 18, 2010 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Mathis can be sort of grandfathered in, beacuse of his injuries have severely limited his production the past few years, how good he is is evident in a lost clip (the play was null b/c of penalty) Mathis caught a short FG and returned it sixty yards befir ehe was tackled. Your proof is in his previous production and that teams still mostly throw away from him even though his last suffocating year the whole way was 2007. Mathis was the entire game turner against the Steelers in the Wildcard, he had two INTs, if not for penalty and pernacious referees probably another pick and a TD
Waber-Jaguar
That's a weak argument
You picked 5 good corners out of the 100+ corners in the league, and then compare them to Haden, who hasn’t played a down in the NFL. That’s like comparing Bradford to Brady, Manning and Brees, then saying he has to throw like them to be successful.
Just because those 5 are fast, doesn’t mean that “all the best corners are fast.” No one “knew” guys like Revis or Asomugha would pan out, and no one can honestly say they know what Haden will do.
Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.
I choose them because they are the elite corners.
When they were drafted they had elite speed.
This coupled with their cover skills allows them to be elite CBs.
Haden does not have elite speed.
He is this years version of Malcolm Jenkins.
Malcolm Jenkins had a good year
Why is that a bad thing?
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Driver of the "Cut Reggie Nelson" Bandwagon.
Winner of the 2010 Chad Pennington Award
He's totally quicker
than Malcolm Jenkins. But at this point, Jenkins doesn’t even look as good as Derek.
Jenkins ran a 4.53, while Haden ran a 4.42.
So the numbers do not agree with you.
In Gene We Trust.
by MoveThoseChains on Mar 18, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hope
Joe Haden falls to us. Hes a good corner and we could use him when we play the colts since they have wayne, garcion, gonzalez, and collie to cover. Plus rashean mathis contract is about to run out. and maybe he could play safety u never know. make reggie nelson perform under pressure.
I agree
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Driver of the "Cut Reggie Nelson" Bandwagon.
Winner of the 2010 Chad Pennington Award
We could definitely
use a third CB. You can never have too many DL’s or CB’s. It’s the 2 areas, other than QB, I think can cripple a team with an injury. Also I think you can never draft too many of them, because finding one in FA is almost impossible without paying up the wazoo. And unlike offensive linemen, you can always find a place for DL’s and CB’s to contribute, whereas back up QB’s and backup OL’s have nothing to do on Sunday’s.
plus
as good as mathis is he has had some injury problems in the past couple of years and he is getting up their in age so it would be bad to have someone in there to get experience before playing that #2 spot behind Cox
But here’s the kicker where does Mathis end up in the D-Backfield and who does he kick out? I say they keep him (mathis) there five more years, as the #1, then #2 Corner. Basically Mathis messes up any possible sucession, from a dime or nickel guy moving into the place or a new guy
Waber-Jaguar
No way
he’s staying as a starter here for that long. Besides after his contract runs out, he’ll likely be too expensive to keep. So in essence, we need to find more CB’s now. Besides NB are practically starters anyhow. Especially when the NB has to cover the likes of Dallas Clark, Wes Welker, Vernon Davis, Owen Daniels and etc. This is especially true if you can’t get to the QB.
Having watched more of
Haden’s games and McCourty’s games, I no longer think Haden is better than McCourty. And I in fact wonder why so many people are so sure Haden is the best.
Also Brandon Ghee will probably last till the 4th round even though many people have him in their top 5 of CB’s.
Well now Ewdtrey agrees.
I am telling you the drop off from Haden if there is any at all….is almost nonexistant. Why would you pay someone 4x as much as the guy who is just as good but will be drafted in the 3rd round? This draft is deep in good corners. Sure it is a premium position but the number of guys who can excel at the next level is not limited, in fact there is a large and talented pool of CBs.
Well
Maybe we could draft a good CB later in the rounds but Haden is lock down. McCourty is really good too but Haden i think is the better CB. And no its not cause he plays in a bigger school. As long as we get the best player available to help our team i dont really care. But if we draft Jason Pierre Paul i’ll cry almost as much as i did when we passed up on Michael Crabtree last year lol
I'm With You
On this whole argument. This draft is really deep in corners and a starter can be found late. However you are spinning your wheels with the receivers argument. LaFell, Jones, and Gilyard.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
That
Was two years ago. This year he Haden limited him to 4 receptions and 40 yards.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
That was supposed to be a rhetorical question lol
I really like Jordan, but he’s super young and that offense revolves around the run game still. 4 catches is not bad for LaFell. In fact he only averaged 4.38 catches per game all season, and that was against inferior teams/defenses. Meaning Haden did no better than the CB’s for Washington and Tulane.
Haha
I was messin with you on the qb thing. In LaFell’s case, I think that goes to show that he is a number 2 receiver in the NFL. A good complement that will catch about four passes a game. But then again, LSU’s passing game lacked last year.
I’m not super high on Haden. I think he is without a doubt first round talent, but not top ten imo.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
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