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Game Speed and Clocked Speed, is there a difference?

Me and another member of BCC are having a debate on running fast and playing fast.  Is there a difference?  Is running down a straight line in tights a measurable of if you can cover and keep up with an NFL receiver?  Can you run a 4.5 and still be a great cornerback?  Or will you get burned time and time again. because you are way too slow?  Please BCC, let us hear your opinion........

Poll
Is there a difference between game speed and clocked speed(like at the combine)?
Yes
33 votes
No
2 votes

35 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 42 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Everyone said from Asomigha he was slow

Well he is looked pretty solid CB to me…

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

by Zoltan from Budapest on Mar 18, 2010 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I mean Asomugha

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

by Zoltan from Budapest on Mar 18, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

i wouldn’t have known you had misspelled that name anyhow. thanks though. glad to see you back. been a few days, hasn’t it, zoltan?

Sean Jax Beach Bum

by cuffs007 on Mar 18, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

No I'M always here Sean!

at least when I have net-access; I’m always here and watching (and commenting as well)!

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

by Zoltan from Budapest on Mar 18, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

here is my rant on another thread ( http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2010/3/17/1378100/joe-haden )
    Anyhow, straight line speed in underwear does not completely compare to game speed. I agree with you on that 100% FRANKdubz. A guy can run a straight line one-half-second faster than the next. BUT, in the game that straight line is measured in, some cases, incredibly short distances of maybe a few yards or less, going in multilple directions… then he has to have the fluidity to change directions to keep up with the WR/TE/whoever… that is where he loses the race, thereby actually losing that half second… whereas the half-second-slower guy is able to turn on a dime, but lose the short distance race to play catch up to the receiver/whoever… making it an exercise in neutrality…
    catch my long winded theory yet? It’s based on a crappy, yet super fast CB and a half second slower, but better cover CB… there are good arguments for both on a team… basically, which guy do you think can overcome being either a crappy cb who is fast, or a slow cb who has tight coverage skills??

Sean Jax Beach Bum

by cuffs007 on Mar 18, 2010 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree 100%

frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba

"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me

by FRANKdubz on Mar 19, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tell You the truth

Both of you are right. I play DB; for a corner straight line speed is important, because when you bail you could very well end up running 30 or even 40 yards in a straight line. But then again, in man and zone the 40 has no use in short movements or quickness. It’s important, but shouldn’t be the deciding factor in a players worth.

Just my opinion.

If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik

by Bestjagfan on Mar 18, 2010 10:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Running in shorts

just helps confirm what you already see on film. In reality speed can be made up in several different ways. In theory however, you want a guy that can run a fast 40 in shorts.
Physically speaking, an individual player will run slower in pads vs running in shorts. That’s just a fact. Everyone slows down in pads, but some slow down more than others; in the case with some players like Haden, you find players that don’t slow down as much as others, like Jacoby Ford.
Back to speed in shorts, yes you want people that run fast in shorts because if they can learn the same tricks of the trade that the slow guys that seem fast already know they have a higher potential and therefore greater ability.
But you can make up for combine speed in a number of ways. For instance, if you’re a stout built player, pads are less likely to slow you down.
Also, as a CB, you don’t have to run from a 3 point stance which means your combine time could be slow because of just a weakness in your start rather than in your actual ability. This is especially true at CB because your first few steps are usually backwards anyhow, and not having false steps can help you transition better too. You can also make up for lack of combine speed by being aggressive at the line of scrimmage or by reacting faster or by just being taller(Jump/reach higher).

by Ewdtrey on Mar 19, 2010 1:47 AM EDT reply actions  

I think Florio said it best

The only time players run in a straight line is when something goes right, or something goes really wrong. 40 times are overrated anyway, just look at Matt Jones.

by JagsAlex87 on Mar 19, 2010 8:33 AM EDT reply actions  

he was a long strider, that was the problem…when he cared enough to try and run full out he could beat the corner and safety deep and outjump tthem easily because of his height….but now hes a TE with the Bengals who most likely wont make the cut in August

Waber-Jaguar

by jawsaints on Mar 19, 2010 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha

hes a TE now? barely saw him take any contact after yrs in jville, cant see him blocking lbs and de

by jags2732 on Mar 19, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

He'll block

if he thinks the other team is after his coke

by JagsAlex87 on Mar 19, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

my source was bad

Waber-Jaguar

by jawsaints on Mar 20, 2010 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes hes officially a WR

Waber-Jaguar

by jawsaints on Mar 20, 2010 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I might need to do my research a little better, thanks ewdtrey thats like the fifth correction you gave me thanks man

Waber-Jaguar

by jawsaints on Mar 20, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

No problemo

and if it makes you feel any better, I rarely, if ever, remember who I correct. lol

by Ewdtrey on Mar 20, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

In my opinion.....

Game speed involves more than just your body moving efficiently in a straight line. The speed at which your mind can identify the situation, and make the correct decision based on that situation, will determine how short a time it takes you to make the play. We talk all the time about great athletes that do not get it done, and that there mental preparation is the cause. It is that mental prep that has a big effect on your game speed.

by GAJAGFAN on Mar 19, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions  

+1 THANK YOU

frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba

"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me

by FRANKdubz on Mar 19, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is true BUT

… consider player X and player Y. Both have the same mental apptitude for understanding the game, and both put in the same amount of preperation pre-game. Player X runs a 4.4, player Y runs a 4.5. If you could choose a player, who would it be? The slower player? Really?

I understand that game speed is not just about straight-line speed. But to completely disregard straight speed is crazy. Can anyone name a single really top-notch CB in the league who runs a slow 40? Can anyone name a really top-notch LB who runs a 5.0+ 40? Of course, you do get “fast” players who just suck at playing football. But, you don’t find elite players that are slow.

by KeithG on Mar 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ronde Barber ran a 4.6 at the combine........

he seems like a pretty good corner if you ask me

frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba

"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me

by FRANKdubz on Mar 19, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

That (lack of) speed suprise me. Maybe I should do it this way, since there always exceptions: name the top 10 CBs, top 10 WRs and top 10 LBs in the league over the last 10 years…. and their 40 speeds.

by KeithG on Mar 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Link?

And don’t give me the profootballtalk webpage.

by Slvrgun on Mar 19, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

this came out of Gene Smith's mouth

on the Fan Forum Conference call…….They sent the mp3 to my e-mail if you aren’t a season ticket holder. Would you like to hear it???? I will personally send it to you in an e-mail if you would like…………

frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba

"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me

by FRANKdubz on Mar 19, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would like to look into that statement....

I see your point, but I am still a big proponent of attitude over aptitude. It would be interesting to have a look at the corners, safeties, and wide receivers around the league and compare 40 times. That would be very interesting.

by GAJAGFAN on Mar 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you

Attitude counts for a LOT. But, it’s not necessarily enough. for example, if i had the very best attitude in the NL, would you pick me considering I would probably run a 6.9?

by KeithG on Mar 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great idea GA...........

We should do that……….dayuuuuuuuum!!!!!!!!!! a 6.9???

frankDUBZ aka Frank Silba

"You have to stand for something, or you will fall for anything" - Me

by FRANKdubz on Mar 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

I’m a 38 year old smoker. A 6.9 might actually be pushing it :)

by KeithG on Mar 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speed is speed

Game speed is just another made up attribute that is really just everything in action. No one has a “game speed”, they have coverage skills, reaction time, agility and speed. Some of these can mask others. “Game speed” won’t get a corner to cover a reciever on a deep route. Just call it what it is.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

by DownTownJax on Mar 19, 2010 10:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Neither will an elite 40 time......

Since the game of football is so complex, and so many of the things that make a player great are not measurable by us humans, we like to make a big deal out of the things we can put a tape, scale, or stop watch to. I think the point of this article is that there is much more to a great player than his 40 times, his bench press, or his height and weight, and I trust the Gene Smiths of the world to be able to see through that.

by GAJAGFAN on Mar 19, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you misunderstood

I am saying there is no game speed, it is a combination of other real skills. Game speed is another way of saying on field performance. It is an escape for explaining a deficiency in measurables by showing on field performance. There is no such thing as game speed. There is such a thing as playing to your strengths.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

by DownTownJax on Mar 19, 2010 1:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think people don’t realize that these guys are football players, not track stars. Running the 40 involves getting in the blocks, using good technique, etc, etc.

The bottom line is can the guy play football? You don’t have to have elite speed to be an elite player, and unfortunately, guys who run 4.2s are few and far between. Otherwise every NFL team would have one. There’s only one Deion Sanders, one Champ Bailey, one Asomugha, one Woodson (Charles and Rod), and most CBs with elite speed that gets drafted don’t pan out, at least not long-term (can anyone say Pac-Man?). We always look at the exceptions and try to make them the norm.

Also, as much as people criticize Mathis & Nelson, they do have elite speed and we’re fortunate to have them.

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.

by JagGameFace on Mar 19, 2010 12:39 PM EDT reply actions  

they go hand in hand

you cant be a shutdown corner w/o being fast, and you arent a good corner just cause your fast. speed is a skill the corner must possess, but not something that makes a corner

by jags2732 on Mar 19, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

+100000

Speed is essential for certain positions, it’s just not the only criterion. You can be a good WR wihout having devestating speed. You can be a good CB, or RB. Being elite is something else entirely. I assume most teams in the draft are hoping for elite players in the 1st few rounds, so speed matters.

by KeithG on Mar 19, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

BUT… this is very important and trumps everyone else’s questions… How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Sean Jax Beach Bum

by cuffs007 on Mar 19, 2010 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Simple....

It depends on his 40 time…..right?!?! No wait, it’s his bench press…yeah that’s it!!!!

by GAJAGFAN on Mar 19, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

excellent response. i wasn’t prepared for that. nice.

Sean Jax Beach Bum

by cuffs007 on Mar 19, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Game speed is more important

timed speed gives you an indictation of game speed but thats about it. Sometimes, in a game you’ll get a head start on a play, which makes you look quicker.

"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Driver of the "Cut Reggie Nelson" Bandwagon.
Winner of the 2010 Chad Pennington Award

by TheTealDeal on Mar 19, 2010 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

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