Joe Haden turns in Sub-par 40 time, may slide past the Jaguars
by Jonathan Loesche on Mar 2, 2010 10:12 AM EST
in 2010 NFL Draft
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PrintRemember how everyone was on the Malcolm Jenkins to Jacksonville bandwagon last year? Remember how he turned in a 4.55 40 at the combine and that all went away?
Well, it's safe to say now that Joe Haden's stock has taken a hit and may slide past the Jaguars radar if they stay at the #10 spot. If the commotion on twitter is correct, Haden turned in a 4.57 and 4.6 in his 40 yard dash. In a position where speed is the x factor, Haden may have ran himself out of the top 10.
While Haden's coverage skills can't be denied, any corner taken in the Top 10 is expected to hold his own with most #1 receivers, and a 4.6 40 time won't cut it against deep threats.
Haden is still easily the best corner in the draft, but the image he had of being the best corner to come out in years took a hit.
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I like Joe Haden but I am not seeing how he is a top 10 pick.
Guy is no Revis. I am not sure he is a Mathis let alone Cox.
Give me a big please.
Are you saying Cox is better than Mathis?
by alwaysforgiven821 on Mar 2, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
It's all part of the Revis-craze right now
Everyone wants to make a player that isn’t Revis into Revis.
With that said, I still believe that Haden is a top 10 pick. I think this 40 time pushed Haden’s stock to the Jaguars rather than past it.
"I just love the Jaguars. Thereeee great! Wow look at the Jaguars almost won the games to the Super Bowl XXXI!" - 2nd Grade Journal entry
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I disagree.
I see a ton of guys that look just as good, fluid, and generally faster than Haden.
The OKLA corners and others look just as good or better than Haden.
We don’t need to spend a top 10 pick on Haden, when there is already a deep class of DBs.
Get the Bigs ( DT, DE, OT, OG, C) or QBs (I don’t like any until maybe 3rd or 4th round…maybe a Tebow, Pike or Brown) then get the skill guys (LBs, WRs, DBs). In any case Haden is not the BAP until maybe the late first.
by Slvrgun on Mar 2, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As good or better?
Did you watch any of the one-on-one match-ups Haden has had in the last two years? He’s covered some of the best wide-receivers in college the last few years, and has pretty much always shut them out. He might not be worth a top-10 pick to some, but no one can say that he isn’t the best CB to have been playing college ball last year.
by alwaysforgiven821 on Mar 2, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
So you're saying
He was an Eraser? We already have one:)
seriously though, I take a little discount on his playmaking due to the level of performance elsewhere on the UF defense. Top tier as a whole, but individuals get a bonus due to other talent helping out. It is easier to spot a standout on a bad team. I’m not sold that he is top 10 by any means.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
by DownTownJax on Mar 2, 2010 1:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't see how he is that much better than the next best CB.
When I look at top 10 guys I am looking for guys who are levels better than the next guy. Suh and McCoy are clearly in a class by themselves. Is Joe Haden really in a class by himself. I’d rather take a DT or trade down and get a guy like Akwasi Owusu-Ansah in the 3rd round. Yeah he played Division II but I’m sure he’d have no problem with division I guys.
NFL is trends
2007 was “we have to get an army of pass rushers” because of the Giants.
2010 will be “we have to get a Darrelle Revis”
2014 will be “we have to get an offensive line anchored by 1st and 2nd round offensive tackles and let them grow together as players.”
Ignore the hype; look at the results.
+1
I like the way you think.
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
40 time does not a great player make, we get blinded by a guy's speed
Don’t forget that Gene is going to draft the BAP, and it won’t be based on how fast a guy ran the 40 at the Combine. If he slides down the draft board and he’s the BAP Gene will jump all over him if he can’t trade back, because Haden is a shutdown corner we can build around. But Haden is not going to drop from top 10 to out of the 1st round because of a 40 time.
Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.
I still don't see how he was a shutdown corner but then I am not a Gator homer either.
No DB other than Berry should be taken in the first round. I actually think Cox (who was basically a second rounder) is better than Haden.
I would tae a few DB's in the first
I would take Haden still. I would take Berry obviously. But I would also take Kyle Wilson, Devin McCourty, and Earl Thomas(For sure).
The draft is strong on DL
It’s a bad time to disappoint in a (slightly) lower valued position.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
by DownTownJax on Mar 2, 2010 11:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hey you never know
Mark Anderson of the Bears, as a rookie, rang up 6 sacks as a situational pass rusher.
If the Jags grab a DE, and I think they have to, they’ll be part of a rotation. If they grab an Alex Carrington in the 3rd (if he’s still there) I’d like to see him and Derrick Harvey meet at the quarterback on 3rd and long.
I have a feeling Joe Cullen will get much better results than Teddy Monachino. If Harvey can improve to 8+ sacks we’re 1/4 of the way there.
Ignore the hype; look at the results.
When I say
my statement. I mean there isn’t anyone that we should expect to be a difference maker at 43 end. Didn’t mean that no one will be. I’m sure 1 or 2 of them will be, and 1 of them probably wont be someone we expect.
Too much stock is put into 40 time
Watch his game film, the guy has serious speed. Sometimes a fast guy doesn’t perform in the 40 it’s like a really smart guy who sucks at standardized testing.
Aaron Curry turned in a faster time than Haden. I’ve watched both players first hand and I can tell you Haden is faster.
That being said, I wouldn’t take him unless we trade down, which I hope we do.
+1
Straight line speed is important for a CB. Especially nowdays where you can hardly breath on a WR until AFTER he has caught the ball.
Good point
height is important too IMO. Length allows you to cover better without having to be sticking on the WR like stink on shit.
i'll be concerned
when they start playing football in underwear. until then, i’ll know that i’ve watched Haden play football in pads, helmet, and uniform for three years, and the guy is fast as hell.
Forget the 40, Remember the Alamo, I meant Matt Jones
Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.
McClain and now Haden suffered a blow
Sounds good to me!!!!!
Life without knowledge is death in disguise
by Zoltan from Budapest on Mar 2, 2010 2:17 PM EST reply actions
Just means that they will both be dropping!
Did anyone else see the interview where Haden said he usually clock in under a 4.4? I tend to believe him.
by alwaysforgiven821 on Mar 2, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
That is with the UF timers
Which feature a reality distortion field. The “posted” times in their locker room are unreasonably low. There was a picture at Tomahawk Nation of their board and it was pretty much a joke.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
by DownTownJax on Mar 2, 2010 2:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Game Film
Watch his game film, especially some of his int. returns, he certainly looks much faster than a 4.6. I think too much stock is put into the 40. Some players simply aren’t good at it. It’s like a really smart guy that happens to suck at standardized testing. I would believe he is capable of a 4.4.
That being said, I wouldn’t take him at ten. Maybe if we trade down to the back end of the first round.
Looks are deceiving.
I played football. There is no speed bonus running in pads and a helmet. If Joe Haden is running 4.5 – 4.6 in underwear. He has to be running at least a 4.7 in pads. Not sure If I want him covering burners especially if they put a nasty double move on him. No room to come back….
not his point
everyone is in pads. he may run a 4.6 in pads, and the guy running a 4.4 could be running a 4.7 in pads. no way to tell.
What I wanna know now is,
what separates Joe Haden from someone like Alterraun Verner.
Verner plays fast. Same size. Even more plays on the ball. Plenty smart, great hips, great ball skills, great WRAP UP tackler.
What makes Haden a top 10 pick, and Verner a 5th rounder with even or better everything basically?
Haden had a slightly better broad jump and a better bench. But Verner had a better 40, better 3 cone, better short shuttle, better long shuttle. And Verner pretty much beat out Haden in every statistical category during his career.
Someone tell me!
HYPE!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS WHAT IT IS. THROW IN BEING IN SEC AND BEING A GATOR!!!!!!!!!
THEY KEEP CALLING THIS GUY THE NEXT REVIS!!!!!!
THIS GUY ISN’T EVEN THE NEXT DEREK FREAKING COX!!!!!!
NO one on this board can tell me that Haden is in some elite class of CBs all by himself. The difference between him and the next guy is marginal at best.
Typical Gator Homerism
The guy spent his whole college career benefiting from an intense pass rush. No opposing QB could be comfortable against that defense. Haden had nothing to worry about in college.
Sure he’s a good player, but he is severely overrated.
We have nothing to worry about because GM Gene knows what Haden is worth and he wont take him unless it’s the right move.
Someone gets it.
Gene will do the smart thing and get the BAP while some sucker gets Malcolm Jenkins v1.1.
(Not that MJ is bad…just overrated).
I’m sure he’ll find us a future DB too because the pool is loaded with stars.
Is Haden doing the 40 again at the UF pro day?
As a point of reference, Revis ran a 4.38 40 with the friendly stopwatches at Pitt, despite being projected around a 4.53. I’d be interested to see how Haden runs with some friendlier stopwatches.
In Gene We Trust.
Why?
You might as well be timing a unicorn. The value of a 40 time goes away when the pressure is lower, the conditions are different, and the timing isn’t accurate. If you want to compare, you need the testing environment exactly the same. It might be fun, but it’s not the real deal.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
by DownTownJax on Mar 2, 2010 9:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can use another fictional character if you prefer
Maybe a werewolf or a Starting NFL quarterback that graduated from UF. Do you like those more?
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
by DownTownJax on Mar 3, 2010 8:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Haha!
Definitely werewolf. Also, couldn’t you say the same for FSU? Funny how that works both ways.
Vae Victis!
True,
But for 2011….. Watch out for Ponder!
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
by DownTownJax on Mar 4, 2010 2:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Robot
That would have made the deference. Unicorn = sissy. Anything that machinates, well that just takes it up a notch. Nothing sissy about a machine…unless it’s sole purpose is to vibrate.
Vae Victis!
Not me
I can move. Speed is my forte. That and pain delivery. I’m not above beating a unicorn with a hammer. I’d break that horn right off…maybe sell it to you. You need a unicorn horn?
Vae Victis!
This sounds like an episode of Axe Cop
"I just love the Jaguars. Thereeee great! Wow look at the Jaguars almost won the games to the Super Bowl XXXI!" - 2nd Grade Journal entry
Follow me on Twitter
?
What’s that? I know Venture Bros…love Venture Bros. But I don’t stay up for it. I DVR it. Is Axe Cop another Adult Swim show?
Vae Victis!
Go to Axecop.com
It’s a comic written by a 5 year old and illustrated by his 29 year old brother. Hilarious.
"I just love the Jaguars. Thereeee great! Wow look at the Jaguars almost won the games to the Super Bowl XXXI!" - 2nd Grade Journal entry
Follow me on Twitter
This could be ignorance, but...
I’ve always wondered about why the combine is all about underwear workouts. Pads affect the speed of some players more than others, and I’d like to see them do some of these drills in pads.
Or am I just clueless?
Ignore the hype; look at the results.
I know many want to think pads make you go faster.
But it is a lie. Added weight does not help anyone. I ran a 4.4 in highschool and probably toped out with a 4.5-6 in pads. No way pads helps anyone.
What they need to do is get a pistol and measure reaction times. Simulate coming off the ball or dropping back. This laser stuff is bullshit.
Game speed vs, 40 yard time.....Hmmmm
I’ve seen what Haden can do so, I’ll take him anytime over guy in 4,3s but no skills ….
40 yard speed is a good measurement for a CB.
You really trust Haden to keep up with Larry, Calvin or Andre and some of the other burners. I’m sorry I don’t.
1st round pick yes.
top 10. no
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