Gene Smith vs. Rashean Mathis: Why Mathis wants his money now.
by silencecs on May 18, 2010 1:31 PM EDT
in Jacksonville Jaguars News
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PrintThere is a crucial point that seems to getting lost in the shuffle of Mathis-gate. One of the reasons this is all occurring now, happens to be that Gene Smith has shown a heartless and cold attitude toward a number longtime Jaguars' mainstays. Although this had to be done, the purge has definitely left those remaining realizing that they have to get paid now, because it may be their last season as a Jaguar. Henderson, Taylor, and Brian Williams were all do large paydays, and all were released without hesitation. This was the right play to make, but you have to know it has a lasting effect on those players who were "left behind".
Could it be the way the Jaguars have been run as a team these last two years that has players scared for their jobs?
Gene Smith's approach is the correct one to take, as he is clearly putting the organization above any individual player. However, this leaves the players thinking they must now look out for themselves, because the team is clearly not. Rashean Mathis may not be convinced that he'll be here for the duration of his contract, albeit only 2 more seasons. Perhaps Gene will blink and cave to Rashean's demands. Perhaps Mathis will voice his silent protest during OTA's and show up ready to go at training camp.
Gene's got all the power in this situation, and will want a positive precedent set against future players wanting to hold out. Gene is trying to run the organization as thriftily as possible, and one can't blame him after all of the money wasted prior to his ascension to the top of the Jaguars food-chain. If Rashean gets anything, it will be from the good graces of Gene, and it won't be much. However, don't read into Jack Del Rio's comment that Rashean won't get a new deal. Jack has no power over personnel and is really playing outside his "sandbox". Forget what the coach says, Gene's got the Conn.
Rashean can't be demonized or blamed for his behavior either. He's been a top-flight corner and has been one of the best players on the defense next to Daryl Smith. His injuries have hurt his stock, and likely have him thinking that his shelf life is shortened. He's got to be thinking that if he goes down again for a period, he'll likely be cut and have to sign a "prove it" contract with another team for one year. Mathis wants his money now, and he deserves it... The question is, will it happen? Not likely.
-Collin Streetman
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Why does someone deserve more than what they agreed to play for?
A contract is a two way street. Both sides agree to an amount based on what the player has done and what it is believed that player can do for an organization. The teams hope that the player does better than what they negotiated for, and the player lives with the comfort of knowing that he has some protection in the case of injury or even less than stellar play. When the term of the agreement comes to an end, both sides re-evaluate their respective positions, and either decide to part ways, or reach a new agreement.
If Gene chooses not to re-new contracts for players that no longer are helping the team, he is doing the right thing. If a player thinks he should be kept around or payed as much or more for less production, he is nuts. Try to keep your current job by going in and doing less, or no work at all. I have a feeling this will do much more harm for Mr. Mathis than good.
You're forgetting the fact that contracts aren't Guaranteed...
Mathis could be cut before next season and not get the last 5 million of his contract…
It is a two-way street, that was my point in the Gene vs. Rashean piece.
I also note that Gene has all the power and Rashean won’t sit out for a season, he just won’t.
-C
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The contract might not be guaranteed
but that’s something that is specified in the contract. Releasing a player and not paying them their future salary is spelled out in the contract.
More and more these days contracts have X amount of dollars guaranteed over the first 3 years and some of that guaranteed money is the players salary.
Point is, everything the owners do is spelled out in the contract. Nowhere in the contract is it written that you have the write to bitch and moan if you think you’re being underpaid a few years from now.
But Mathis is cut
then he can find a contract with another team. In fact Mathis might be lucky if that happens because then he gets to keep his guaranteed portion he’s owed now, and he can negotiate a new contract with another team for even more money.
I'm not suggesting they cut him at all.
I’m just saying that, in general, a team releasing a player is allowed as part of the contract. A player holding out to force negotiations is not.
Of course in all the cases going on in the NFL right now, none of these guys are actually holding out since they’re just missing voluntary workouts.
he wont sit
Rashean wont sit out for a couple of reasons…..
If Gene dosnt renew the contract for what rashean wants, hes gona have to play out his contract anyway, and he knows that if he dosnt play top notch hell get cut, and that would also lower his stock. 1. if he dosnt play up to our expectations we all know what gene will do “bye rashean”, and then rashean play this next year if bad will be looked upon by the other teams that hes not worth anything to them either…hense look at big john. But if rashean has a out standing season, and we dont get him the contract it could help him out by finding one with another team. So in both cases it plays to rasheans benifit to have a great season, With out the new contract. I say hold off on the new contract, give the man enough rope to either climb back up on top or hang him self to and ending carrier.
Mess With the Best Die like the Rest
I agree
with a lot of what you’re saying, but one factor is involved. Mathis knows the cliff is near, the cliff where his play could fall off precipitously. That being so, with the lack of depth in the DB field, JDR being on the hot seat, and age catching up to Mathis; this might be Mathis’ last chance to hit it big.
In all reality.....
he has been hitting it big for years. We must keep a lock on the overall picture of life here! I am not saying others have not hit it bigger, but he has hit it plenty big.
Mathis isn't the only one
that knows the cliff is near.
by Conservative on May 18, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Are there not usually gauranteed monies tied to these deals?
Again, far from an expert on these matters. That guaranteed money is “safety net” for the dangerous job that these guys do. If they get hurt, they have something to fall back on for the rest of their lives, and a few million or more goes a long way. I also thin that the retirement plan for NFL players that have been in the league for a few years (4 or 5) is pretty good (over $150K). What I am saying is that being an NFL player is not a guarantee to having more money than Bill Gates, but by no way will you live like a normal guy either.
If Rashean has a a great season, he will get a nice contract offer when his is up I am sure. If he is not playing well, he may not get a contract from the Jags or anyone else, or the contract that is offered might be less than he wants. He should negotiate for all he can get, and then go honor it.
This waqs supposed to be a response to Collin's reply to me abouth the contracts not being gauranteed....
I was trying to show how the players are well compensated for. I am not seeing how I contradicted myself, but i may have.
Ok
Maybe i read your first post wrong, i thought it stated that he shouldnt be moving for a new contract and should prove that he deserved a new one, then your second post i thought i stated to get all he could and then go honor it……….Was i reading wrong,,,, if so i do appoligize.
Mess With the Best Die like the Rest
You got the first one right....
and what i was trying to say in the second one was directed to Collin’s response that Rashean could loose out on $5 mill left on his contract if he were to be cut. I was trying to show that this fact of being cut, along with the chance for injury, is why there are guaranteed monies put into the contract. I probably did not make it very clear.
This is what he missed
he will get a nice contract offer when his is up I am sure
“when his is up”
by Conservative on May 18, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Correction
Jack Del Rio did not say the team wouldn’t offer Mathis a new contract, but rather he said “No” in response to the question as to whether or not the team plans on giving Mathis a new contract.
missing the point
I think people are missing the point. We should have no problem with what Rashean is doing. The obvious point to me is that he DOESNT deserve a raise or a new contract. What has he done over the last couple of years that would warrant him getting a new deal? Go look at that seattle game and tell me how much he’s worth. If he’s been healthy and just as productive as he was then the team would have no problem paying him. But why would Gene Smith in his right mind give a player a new contract when hasnt played a full season in 4 years?
Worth it or not....
I think that the point now is the man signed a contract. He should honor the contract he signed. His actions are disruptive the Jaguars at this point, and for that reason, I do not support what he is doing.
WOW!!!
ok lets not talk about the seattle game…..I for one who was at the game in person……would have to say, not one person on the team showed they should be getting paid half of what they make…..You cant just judge off of one game, but your right he has been unpreductive in quite a few games……
Mess With the Best Die like the Rest
I was at that game too
Only game I made it to last season…brutal. Who knew Seattle, which is like the most PC place on earth, would have a fanbase with so many dickheads. I agree, though…not one Jag deserved a paycheck for that pathetic showing
by JohnnyBiceps on May 19, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting thing is...
… that the Seattle game is the only one people can think of. Can someone name, off the top of their head, another game that Mathis had a bad game?
by alwaysforgiven821 on May 19, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Where did the Cold Gene Smith rep come from?
I have seen it a lot in comments at BCC that Gene Smith is cold blooded, never blinks, etc. Where does that come from? In his two years, he’s cut a lot of dead weight, but I haven’t seen him cut anybody that didn’t deserve it or refuse to pay anybody that did. I know I’m a smart ass and all, but seriously, can somebody fill me in on instances where Gene has ice water in his veins?
Fred Taylor deserved it?
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I'll echo this.
Taylor was, by far, the most popular player on the team and the face of the franchise. A lot of GMs would have struggled to simply cut a guy like him.
by alwaysforgiven821 on May 18, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
MJD was more popular
than Fred Taylor. That was obvious when MJD won the popularity vote when Freddy went to the Pro Bowl.
Fair Play
Yeah it sucked to see Freddy T go, but I knew he was on his way out. I am a Fred guy, one of two jag jerseys I own, but I was and am still a little upset at Fred and Mike P about how they acted and added to the break down of the team. Adding Porter, Florence and then having Fred and Mike P throwing temper tantrums almost killed the whole franchise.
But all that’s beside the point… Yeah, I think Fred had to go when he did and “he deserved it”. It was Mo Jo’s time and Fred wasn’t going to play back up to Mo Jo and would have been a bigger distraction than what he had already become. I don’t think they could have even asked him to play back up and fade out gracefully for a lot less money.
Honor is contract? Have you paid attention to the NFL the last decade? If NFL teams dont “honor” contracts then why should players? In the NFL today player’s need to look out for themselves since most have such a short shelf life. Some are deserving and some arent. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. In this case, and as much as I like Rashean and respect him, he doesnt deserve a new contract. But if he wants to hold out and try to get a new contract then all the power to him. Just dont bring up this crap about a player honoring his contract in the NFL today.
I agree the honor should be on both sides....
But when you look at signing bonuses and other guaranteed money, its not like the players are not getting a chunk of cash in most cases. That being said, I still look at it as their responsibility to hold up their end of the deal. If you are a player and worried about being cut when you are negotiating your contract , then get more up front money so you can feel good about holding up your end of the deal.
Teams DO honor the contracts.
As I’ve written several times today, the contract has early termination logic built into it. It’s PART OF THE CONTRACT. Just because a player is released prior to the full value of the contract being paid doesn’t mean the contract isn’t followed.
For example, if Mathis is released, he gets to keep his full signing bones that he received with his current contract. That is spelled out IN THE CONTRACT.
Gotta check the fine print
Fine print says this is the agreement IF we choose to follow the agreement. IF we do not want to, we don’t have to… soooooo if you want to play football, you take it or leave it and don’t complain that you COULD BE making a lot more or SHOULD BE making a lot more because when you came into the league we now own you. Like property. But it’s cool.
That’s indentured servitude, not a sports contract.
But as long as it’s written on page 47 in fine print, it’s all fair right?
workman's comp?
Does Rashean get 75% of his pay if he gets hurt on the job?
Plus, we ALL know that the NFL isn’t like any other job. I’m underpaid too, but my holdout lasted all of the weekend when I was already off anyways.
Yes they do
get comp. It;s called the guaranteed portion of their contract. Not to mention injury settlements and etc.
That's not workman's comp man
It’s not 75% of his pay that he has been making, future years are not paid if he’s cut, hurt, etc. The injury settlements only usually occur when you’re in camp without a deal, etc. because if he’s under contract the only way he gets paid in case of injury is if he’s on injured reserve. Usually guys have to buy some sort of an insurance policy that will give them like a million or whatever they buy to cover them in case of injury, BUT that gets bought by the player. Like Big Pimpin Aflac or somethin. The guaranteed portion of their contract is the only part of the contract that is guaranteed that they get. That’s why players get all itchy when the guaranteed cash runs out.
Again, I am not behind Mathis on this situation this year – this is something he should be doing (IMO) next year after he comes out and steps up this year. I just understand where he’s coming from, if you don’t stick up for yourself nobody else will. Just be smart enough to recognize the appropriate time and place.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this
I don’t think teams can cut a player without paying them if they’re injured while playing the game.
If they're injured during a game..
they get paid for the season. But if it happens preseason, they can be cut without penalty or with just a minor settlement, like NOT their regular pay. They only get paid if it’s after the official rosters are set and they officially make the team for that year. Thus, all the OTAs, mini camps, preseason games, etc… are fair game. That’s why players have to clear waivers so their rights can be protected for special roster exemptions.
This would be an excellent question for Don Carey. How did he get paid when he got hurt last year and how all that works?
Sorry, but I have to chime in here
Since when can an organization not
(1) ask an employee to take a pay cut to keep their job, or
(2) fire an employee that they feel doesn’t earn their salary or fit with the goals of the organizaion.
Since when can an employee not
(1) ask the organization for more money if they feel that they are underpaid
(2) leave the company and seek more money/gameful employment with another organization
Why do people think that what goes on in an NFL organization is any different than the employer/ employee dynamic that you and I deal with every day?
Because they play on tv on Sundays?
Because the amount of money they get paid?
Because they have a dangerous job?
If the Jags think that Mathis is worth what he’s paid and that he’s contributing to the organization, they’ll keep him.
If the Jags think that he’s overpaid, they’ll ask him to take a paycut or hit the bricks.
If the Jags think that he’s working beyond what he’s paid and he’s vital to the continuing success of the organization, they’ll pay him accordingly.
It works this way… everywhere… everyday.
by FL_Native on May 18, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Bingo, summed it up nicely
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by Jonathan Loesche on May 18, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
What job
have you ever had where you got a 5-yr deal with a guaranteed amount? That is exactly how it will/should work WHEN his current contract is up.
I like the post other than that.
by Conservative on May 18, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty good comment to put things in perspective
But to say that this job isn’t any different is a little bit of a stretch. Actually it’s a huge stretch.
It would be one thing to say this if Rashean was doing something unprecedented by skipping out on practices to make a point about his contract, but he’s not. In the NFL, when players want new contracts this is the route many of them take and quite often it works.
In the real world, the average employee that you compared him to is much more replaceable. That’s the big difference. These players are so elite and in such slim availability that they have the ability to turn the tables.
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You never know
Mathis could be usurped, downgraded, or traded. It’s a tough business, and a young man’s game. We’ll see.
Vae Victis!
Trading is another thing that you don't have in the real world
Another reason why the above comment that the NFL is no different than “the employer/ employee dynamic that you and I deal with every day” is a little questionable.
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by Zoltan from Budapest on May 19, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You guys are beating this shit to death.
Mathis is great guy. I think he deserves the money but if he can’t get it from here I’m sure he’ll be offered by another team for his services. Even while he was injured Mathis was still a top 10 corner. Healthy he is a top 5 corner and I think he still have quite a few years left in the tank.
Spicer, Peterson, Florence, Porter, Northcutt, the Canadian, and Henderson, Witherspoon, Ingram, were all overrated as shit. Mathis was easily the best defensive player and a top 5 player on the team.
Tony Pashos is the only one who comes to mind...
… but he is from Ohio.
by alwaysforgiven821 on May 18, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't think he was
Canadian. I thought he was just drafted number 1 over all by them. I could be very wrong.
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by Zoltan from Budapest on May 19, 2010 9:57 AM EDT reply actions
We got trade fevor brewing
You can’t trade someone because they are asking for more money. Unless we get a 2nd I wouldn’t see us trading our starting CB.
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Real fans don’t need a reason.
I can't imagine
how bad this situation could be if had drafted Revis. We’d be stuck in between a rock and a hard place.
Myabe we could let him be a starter as safety and good depth as a CB
Have him be a FS, then you’ll always have 3 CBs on the field.
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Real fans don’t need a reason.
You wouldn't
be using Revis to the best of his abilities. He’s a press man CB not a cover CB. I’d rather move Mathis to FS.
oh i'm sorry
I was talking about moving mathis to FS with Revis and Cox as CBs
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
Real fans don’t need a reason.
If we had drafted Revis we would have been in the playoffs..
All it would have taken was one INT in any of the last few games and we could have been in..
" In Gene We Trust "
Good article
I defiantely understand Mathis’ point.. but its age that makes me feel he may not be as sharp as he once was.. and maybe he is holding out from OTA so as not to show he lost a step with last years injury. Hes right, if he doesn’t have game.. Gene will let him go.
" In Gene We Trust "
I guess he wants his money for nothing
and his chicks for free. Meanwhile, I just want my MTV.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
here is a thought
What IF Cox has a better season then Mathis. Do you think that it hurts his case for a new contract.
by jesusjagfan2009 on May 20, 2010 9:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
No
Because you still need TWO good corners. And Cox did have a better season than Mathis.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
No, he really didn't
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by Adam Stites on May 20, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't understand how people have deluded themselves so much about Cox.
He has a great season for a rookie CB, but he was not our best corner, and has a /long/ way to go.
by alwaysforgiven821 on May 20, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Not deluded
But in a year of piss poor defense, Cox was pretty solid, with a few exceptions. Mathis IS the best corner on the team, but it was not a great year from him, partly due to injuries.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
Same amount of interceptions
and played in more games. If Mathis wasn’t hurt, he would have had the better year.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
Quote from something I heard today:
“If it’s a good contract when you sign it, that means it is a good contract until it is expired.”
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