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There Is No Quarterback Controversy In Jacksonville...Yet.

When Luke McCown completed his 73 yard touchdown pass to Troy Williamson it was the first highlight of a thus far benign offensive performance. After the 30 yard scoring pass to John Matthews the conversations turned to the battle for wide receiver slots. When Tiquan Underwood pulled in Luke’s 55 yard pass for a touchdown, two words could be heard throughout Jaguar Nation: Quarterback Controversy.

It is a phrase not unfamiliar to the fan base.

Back in 2007 the storyline played out like a movie. Byron Leftwich, the quarterback who was drafted amid controversy by the new regime of Shack Harris and Jack Del Rio, was in a contract year. Over the past two seasons he battled multiple injuries, public feuds with his coach, negative public sentiment and a charge from backup David Garrard. Though the team’s record showed progress as a starter, Byron was not showing the progress expected of a high first round draft pick.

Star-divide

Coming off a 9-7 record in 2004, the expectations for 2005 included the playoffs. With Byron leading, the Jaguars would start 7-3. However, an injury to Byron's ankle during a week 12 game at Arizona forced David come in and he won five of the remaining six games, earning Jacksonville a Wild Card birth.

Let the quarterback controversy begin.

Amidst much speculation of who should start in their game at New England, Del Rio opted to bench the "hot" Garrard for the "healed" Leftwich. In the aftermath of an embarrassing 21-3 loss the questions would not only center around who should have started that game but also who should start period.

When Byron went down with another ankle injury in a week seven game at Houston, Garrard was once again asked to save the season. For Leftwich, his supposed failure to disclose the extent of the injury he had been dealing with most of the season made him unpopular with both coach and fans.

Though David would win five of his next seven starts, putting the team in the playoff hunt at 8-5, it would be the infamous "three game meltdown" which set the tone for the next phase of the quarterback debate.  It no longer was clear who the best option was.

Entering 2007, the expectation was that Leftwich would still be the starter. But after an abysmal preseason which was highlighted by continued poor mechanics and decision making in a week three game at Green Bay, Garrard was surprisingly named the starter.

Move to present day.

For the Jaguars the 2010 season has started with a similar storyline. The present starting quarterback, who assumed the role amidst controversy, has battled consistency and the demands from both coach and fans are high. Add to that, after a 2007 season which saw the team make an inspiring playoff run, and gave Garrard a hefty raise, the team has struggled through two straight seasons without a playoff appearance.

This past Friday’s first team performance did nothing to sway opinion in Garrard’s favor. With McCown lighting up the Philadelphia sky, albeit against second teamers, those wanting a quarterback change may now have a serviceable alternative.

But how much should we take from three series in the first preseason game? Even back in 2007 the change wasn’t made until Byron saw considerable time with the first team offense. Asking Jack to make a change would be premature. At the very least David deserves time behind the healthiest offensive line the team is able to field during these initial four games.

Even looking only at the statistics would be a disservice to David. On more than one occasion he was forced to get rid of the ball quickly. Of his five completions three of them were quick tosses to either the running back or a wide receiver. On a fourth down pass to Mike Sims-Walker he was forced to release high as the right tackle completely missed his block, allowing the defensive end, basically, a free shot.

The problem, fairly or not, is that reasons for why Garrard cannot perform better are wearing thin.

We have seen the potential. In 2007 David inherited a below average receiving corps (a defense once used for Byron’s lack of success) yet still managed to make that playoff run. With Sims-Walker, Mike Thomas and Marcedes Lewis his weapons are vastly improved. He played 2008 with a decimated offensive line and for that was given a pass. In 2009 he had two rookie tackles and a below average interior line yet managed to have the team in playoff contention.

Even with these successes of getting the most from the limited resources around him, David is still haunted by last year’s late season collapse along with massive duds against Seattle and San Francisco.

Now with McCown’s success there is curiosity in what he can do and why he hasn’t done it before. Was this just an anomaly? Once the offensive line is healthy, will we see David perform just as efficiently?

I’m not sure those are actually the questions we should be asking. Luke hasn’t had a stellar camp and therefore his role as backup is justly earned. But the same could’ve been said about David back in 2007. Though there was much leading up to the decision, it was Garrard’s performance as a second stringer in game situations which forced the coaches to take notice. Far greater was his regular season success leading up to his promotion, something, to David's degree, McCown cannot claim.

The more compelling question may be what the backup quarterback has to do in order to get that opportunity with the first string offense against a first string defense. Additionally you have to ask, if the counterargument will continue to be that the stats are only against other backups, by what do you judge him?

I don’t think anyone would expect Jack to pull the trigger on Garrard after just one preseason game. Factor in the missing starters on the line and David’s camp success (specifically in Atlanta) and there is enough to keep the torches unlit and the pitchforks in the barn. What it does do is to make these preseason games even more significant. What if there is a repeat performance?

Del Rio has shown us he will make the change, but for those wanting McCown, one highlight reel doesn't clearly define him as the heir apparent. There simply isn’t enough evidence to warrant a quarterback controversy.

Not yet.

-Brian Fullford

Comment 87 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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I say....

give them equal playing time in preseason……alternate possesions and see what happens….

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 16, 2010 5:21 AM EDT reply actions  

I thought....

… that Del Rio should have pulled McCown, after his 2nd TD pass, and re-inserted David to see if he could perform as well (any better). It’s preseason, shake it up a little. See what the fallout will be. Maybe that would have lit a fire under David’s butt.

I’m not seeing the intensity in David’s face that you can see every second of a game on Peyton Manning’s face. David seems to want to be one of the guys, not the leader of the guys. Just my opinion.

by whazaaap on Aug 16, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Facial intensity?

Good grief.

I too would have liked to see Garrard come back in, though.

by KeithG on Aug 16, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree with you Brian

David has not legit challenge at the QB position. If he is became a better payer and leader; as he promised; he must raise his playing level and must switch 2 gears up (at least).
If he can answer the challenge in the remaining 2 pregames(Atlanta is for the reserves) ;then the Jags might become better in the longterm.
If not; (and McCown can stay in this form) we might see a major change before opening day.

Oh and by the way; dear Jaguars- I hope you wwatched the Denver game. They have tons of injured players; yet the 1st team looked quite good; Orton is better then ever behing a brand new O-line and with many new targets. Their secondary is looking very great to….

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Aug 16, 2010 5:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah

Anyone who thought the 1st game against the Broncos was going to be easy should think again. They looked good, injuries and all.

by KeithG on Aug 16, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

there

wont be a change (at least anytime soon) but if this continues into the regular season then there will be a controversy

by JaGator1 on Aug 16, 2010 6:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't see a QB controversy

DG is best we have at the moment. What is becoming clearer is that this franchise does need another QB. I don’t think McGowen (sic) is the answer – hopefully, that will come with next years draft.

Being that DG is a total known quantity at this point – I would support putting in McGowen (sic) in the next preseason game w/ the 1s for 2 reasons:

1) to actually see what he can do with the 1s and

2) shake up DG a little.

The days of DG yuking it up on the sidelines during losses should be replaced with a little leadership and seriousness – maybe a blow torch lit under his fanny might do him and this franchise some good.

by OGN on Aug 16, 2010 6:42 AM EDT reply actions  

I initially thought worse

But after rewatching the game realized I was wrong. Alfie’s recent article nailed my sentiment that David actually made the right call most of the time. A part of me wants Luke in with the 1’s this week but, like they did with Byron, I’m Ok to not take it to that next level. But the fuse is short.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi
My personal blog:

by Brian Fullford on Aug 16, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

unless something really dramatic changes

(and I do not expect it to) DG is the starter and should be since he is the best we have. I’ve maintained since last year that I in order to win a championship, we need to go in another direction – and my opinion has not changed in that regard. We also need some more playmakers and depth – that’ll take another off season and probably two.

There will be times and games where he looks like the greatest QB ever to have played the game – and I really do mean that. BUT – we keep running inot that brick wall known as consistency. What’s really agrtevating about the guy is that the physical tools are definately there and I think he’s tougher than Ajax to boot.

I really wouldn’t mind rattling his cage a little though – I do think it would sharpen that intensity a little – know what I mean :-)

by OGN on Aug 16, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

What I liked about making the comparison with the DG\BL controversy was that David had that game time pedigree. Luke has some success but not nearly the same. If the natives start wanting to replace DG it helps to look back at what led JDR to make the same type of decision 3 years ago. Maybe this article was a bit premature but I wanted to proactively address it should the Miami game cause an increased swell of dissent.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi
My personal blog:

by Brian Fullford on Aug 16, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec’d for truthiness

Big Cat Country, The #1 Jaguars blog on the net

by Jonathan Loesche on Aug 16, 2010 8:03 AM EDT reply actions  

You had me looking through the article for made up words

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi
My personal blog:

by Brian Fullford on Aug 16, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Concur with...

“Now with McCown’s success there is curiosity in what he can do and why he hasn’t done it before. Was this just an anomaly?”

Sean

Pax Armis Acquiritur

by cuffs007 on Aug 16, 2010 8:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Why such a response from the fans?

I took some time to stop and think about why we had such an immediate fan response after the first preseason game with regard to Luke McCown’s performance.
Jaguar fans have been yearning for an offense and quarterback that could execute a vertical game. They are tired of the checking down to a running back in the flat or a slot receiver over the middle for a four yard gain. They are desperately looking for down the field passing one that spreads the defense and opens up the running game. Friday night for a brief period in a game they were treated to an offensive display that has eluded the team for years. Luke McCown put on a display that rivaled any I have seen by a quarterback this preseason. It was a breath of fresh air provided a suffocating fan base. They watched their wide receivers cut up the defense, striking down field and catching a perfect pass for a touchdown. It was what the fans were longing for after being absent from their offense so long. Luke put on a display that would be hard to repeat and he many fall flat on his face next week. But for that one moment he was the quarterback Jaguar fans were dreaming of. David has had fleeting moments of good quarterback play, like last years game against the Colts, but far too little of them. So at the very least it has added some excitement to this year’s preseason. Everyone is waiting for the dolphin game to see what all this really means.

by Dennisp3 on Aug 16, 2010 9:04 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

His deep balls did look awsome, alot of people dont realize how hard it is even on a 2nd D…to hit a receiver instride so he dosnt hve slow up, or leap.. and he hit them with percision….And thats why i think the Diffrence with him and DG is he seems to have a little better touch and judge for distance.

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 16, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd both of these

For those who say “2nd string”, he still execute. That is 2 long passes in stride and a nice seam pass…all for touchdowns. Should have noted that in the article as it makes the case for “what actually does he need to do”?

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi
My personal blog:

by Brian Fullford on Aug 16, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do not much care.....

about what everyone is calling a vertical game. I do not much care about big shots down the field. What I do care about, and think most of the Jag fans do, is an offense that can move the ball. Check down dumps to the RB in the flat are fine with me at 4 – 5 yards a clip, and 3 – 4 yard runs are fine also. Situations involving third and 1 or 2 do not bother me. THREE AND OUT BOTHERS ME!!!
If we take long drives that eat up time, we are keeping the ball out of our opponents hands, and giving our defense a good rest. You become regularly successful with the run and short pass, and the long shots will open up, so lets get passionate about a productive offense, and not worry so much about how they get it done!

by GAJAGFAN on Aug 16, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

what you may not see

if you cant get the ball down feild with more then a 5 yard dump, teams start to play close, closes up the gaps, and prevents short yard throws into big yard games, you cant have short dumps and running all the time….you begain to choke your team and set up for rushing the QB. If there not afraid of your down feild ball, thell come afer you every time.

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 16, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...

and in a sense, said just the opposite. My comment was to have a successful short game, and that will pull the defense up, and open the long game. I guess the counter to that train of thought is the Colts that certainly can hurt you with the long ball, but are not so good at the run game.
I guess what I am saying is that we have to move the ball, and figure out what works for us. That plan may include more short stuff, because its our strong suit with guys like MJD and some good tight ends. I think a team can be successful in this league without having to air it out on every possession.

by GAJAGFAN on Aug 16, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

we do need to find what works for us….but it dosnt seem to be the short dump off’s, i could be wrong…but over the last 3 years, thats all we have done, and teams are begining to notice, bc we dont mix it up, its run or dump short….we have no down hill threat, One because DG is imo not tht accurate of a passer….and when rushed he floats, i think it could be panic, or hes just not got the head game together, hes very phycial, but it seems like something is aray with him……and im sorry, but if he cant get a 10 yard on target, cant expect him to get a 50 yard on target, and i blame both coaching and DG…..he is the check down king….

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 16, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Colts

Are good enough at the run when they do run it, if only to throw teams off.

by Slvrgun on Aug 16, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I am going to wait until Saturday night...

to see how he (DG) does, but i do not disagree with things you have said.

by GAJAGFAN on Aug 16, 2010 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

I concur.....

Am greatly awaiting for the game to see if it shapes up better on these aspects…..god knows this is the only think i have to look forward to in this desolate waistland called Iraq …..lol…dont tell the wife she thinks its just the skypes…lol…

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 16, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

on that we can all agree :)

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi
My personal blog:

by Brian Fullford on Aug 16, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was laughing my ass off last night watching him play

He would take a beating behind any offensive line with the way he holds on to the ball, although he made a nice throw or two. But the same people who blasted Leftwich for his long release would make excuses for Tebow.

You can't reason with unreasonable people.

by JagsAlex87 on Aug 16, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Preseason vertigo.

Everyone, crystal balls…ready???? Go!

And they’re off. Garrard sucking at QB. MJD, what’s with getting stuffed? Derrick Harvey made Vick fumble. He’s a champ. Oh, Morrison missed an assignment, MLB is a weakness now. Keep going! Why stop?

Because. It’s practice. Preseason is a fancy name for intra-squad scrimmage, but the cheerleaders try to convince me otherwise.

The Teal and Black are comin' back!

by arthardie on Aug 16, 2010 1:53 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Aug 16, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

nice drama for effect

If that is the case then we should have no reaction to eithr success or failure. Preseason is where you observe and determine who performs and to what extent. If it doesn’t matter why do they make cuts? No one is calling for anyone’s job. Nice effort with your overreaction.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi
My personal blog:

by Brian Fullford on Aug 16, 2010 4:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

+1

If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik

by Bestjagfan on Aug 16, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

i understand what you mean, arthardie. hate to say it, but this never stops. i think it calms down once we’re a few games into the season. just a little.

Sean

Pax Armis Acquiritur

by cuffs007 on Aug 16, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's no QB controversy

It was 1 quarter of the 1st preseason game. Can we keep things in perspective? Obviously they called more deep passes for McGowen/McCowen/McCown than Garrard – honestly I thought the play-calling sucked in the 1st quarter, and Garrard sat on the sideline so long b/c the defense let Philly roll up & down the field.

That’s like saying that one of you guys should get kicked out of college b/c you made a C on your 1st homework assignment of the semester…

As long as Garrard plays better in the 2nd & 3rd preseason game, we’ll be fine. Don’t forget they don’t game-plan for these games, so McCown & Koetter had the benefit of 2nd quarter adjustments and scrubs being in the game at that point, too.

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.

by JagGameFace on Aug 16, 2010 3:11 PM EDT reply actions  

i love....

how every one call the 2nd team scrubs…..im sorry but a scrub in footbll would be you you me or anyone else who never got a shot on a NFL team…..much less be someones back up, they may not be as good as the first, but there far from scrubs.

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 16, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

But at times.....

there is a big difference between starters and non-starters, and its a big enough difference to make a decent back-up playing against back-ups look great compared to a starter playing against other starters.

by GAJAGFAN on Aug 16, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

and these weren't even backups

they’re guys trying to make a team. There were at least 27 players on the Eagles roster for that game that will not make the team.

by pksiv on Aug 16, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

A scrub relative to the NFL starters

Not to you or me my friend. Everybody knows most of the backups will get cut and many will never make a NFL roster.

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.

by JagGameFace on Aug 17, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Like Vic said, There's a big difference between Asante Samuel and Macho Harris

Do you think Tiquan Underwood would have burned Samuel like that???

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.

by JagGameFace on Aug 17, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is true....

But regardless, there far from scrubs….I know for one, i played HS ball, and i would get made to look like a real scrub if i were to step out on the feild….Depth dosnt always mean scrubs….

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 16, 2010 3:55 PM EDT reply actions  

They are scrubs in the NFL Sense of the word

Sure, they miles better than you or I are, but they’re not real competition to evaluate against. Heck Danny Wuerffel could have completed that pass to Trow Williamson.

by pksiv on Aug 16, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not buying it

They did not call a vertical game for David. Am I to believe all the receivers ran ten yard routes while David was in, sorry I’m not buying that. David will get his chance this week to silence the boo birds and Luke will get his chance to prove he play at an elite level two weeks in a row. It will add some excitement to the game.
.

by Dennisp3 on Aug 16, 2010 4:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Why would they tell the truth?

They are not obliged to tell how they game planned with their starting QB. And what Dennis said does make sense. I call BS. The Eagles had no problem opening it up the start of the game.

by Slvrgun on Aug 16, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

We had players who can make plays, but they can’t if the play call calls for a 2 yard curl route and the like. If the playbook was as open to garrard as it was to Mccown. Garrard probably would of played better. I guess the question is whether they trust Garrard to execute the risky plays or are they waiting for the regular season, If so how well it executed then

"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"

Real fans don’t need a reason.

Gamertag: xXTealNinjaXx

by TheTealDeal on Aug 16, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it was more about

could they trust the OT’s to keep their starting QB upright if they call a down field play.

by Ewdtrey on Aug 17, 2010 4:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just look at how the plays were

setup. It’s obvious some of those plays were 1 read and throw it away. This is the preseason, they are trying new stuff.

by Ewdtrey on Aug 17, 2010 4:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Difference....

between Garrard’s situation when he replaced Leftwich and his situation now is that he won five out of the last six games the year before he replaced Byron, he outperformed Byron in OTAs and training camp the following year, and in the preseason that same year he was a rock star. THAT’S A BIG DIFFERENCE!! Luke McCown is NOT going to replace DG as the starting quarterback. Not sure why people can’t understand that.

by tecallion on Aug 16, 2010 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Bingo

That is the subtle point I was trying to make (well I did make a direct comment to that effect so maybe not so subtle). Garrard had a bit more mileage to stake his claim. The rub is that it doesn’t matter whether Luke has more game time experience with respect to a QB controversy.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi
My personal blog:

by Brian Fullford on Aug 16, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brian Fullford....

reading your post is like reading a comic book. You have a great imagination.

by tecallion on Aug 16, 2010 5:47 PM EDT reply actions  

One more thing....

we should cut MJD because he had 0 yards. How ya like that controversy?! Oh, and while we’re at it, lets cut MSW because he dropped two balls. We should also look at cutting TK because he’s a fat ass. What say you guys? lol

by tecallion on Aug 16, 2010 5:50 PM EDT reply actions  

The difference

People know they can count on MJd to be a top 5 RB, Sims-walker is reliable enough to be a starter, and TK, most people don’t talk much about a DT unless he has alot going against him. Garrard hasn’t had a season as good as 2007 and that alone has people questioning. If he plays good, the questions will be answered. The problem is reliability.

"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"

Real fans don’t need a reason.

Gamertag: xXTealNinjaXx

by TheTealDeal on Aug 16, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, his seasons....

haven’t been as great as his first as the starting quarterback, but you guys have to keep in mind he didn’t have much around him. Also, how many times was he sacked last year? 46 times or something like that?! If you don’t keep the guy upright, he can’t throw the ball.

Don’t be so quick to write the guy off when there are other complexities in play. We know he probably has enough to get things done this year so lets see how it all works out. Jesus, people, it’s one preseason game for God’s sake!

by tecallion on Aug 16, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tongue in cheek

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi
My personal blog:

by Brian Fullford on Aug 16, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

The beginning of the End for David

The Peak of his career was 2007 and i don’t think he’ll ever exceed that peak.

I was with the mutiny that wanted him as starter and put leftwich off the field. The issue was we didn’t get the results we wanted and the quality of his performance was lacking. However this controversy or the beginning of one is not if he should be replaced but by who and when. Granted, everyone wants a QB in the Draft but then some people excuse some of the mistakes Garrard makes based on this or that. The only acceptable reason for mediocrity is the unstability of the starting rookies. Other than that, it can not be explained. Since there is cause to draft a Qb then there is also cause to question why he should start.

As they say history repeats.

"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"

Real fans don’t need a reason.

Gamertag: xXTealNinjaXx

by TheTealDeal on Aug 16, 2010 8:07 PM EDT reply actions  

We are cut from the same cloth

I actually held out for BL until the GB game. Alfie can attest to this fact(as we have disagreed in the past back on jaguars.com), that I have been a DG apologist, if you will, for the past two years. I argued that he did more with less. I argued that he didn’t have time to show his talent. However, what I’m looking for is a QB who doesn’t necessarily need the talent around him to make him better. And that probably isn’t fair. He was dealt a bad hand. We should all be amazed at what he did in 2007 whether he can ever repeat that or not.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.
Vince Lombardi
My personal blog:

by Brian Fullford on Aug 16, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

totally, everything i agree with

"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"

Real fans don’t need a reason.

Gamertag: xXTealNinjaXx

by TheTealDeal on Aug 18, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

15 TDs/10 INTs

Those were his stats last year. That put him in the middle of the pack amongst NFL quarterbacks. He’s not considered “elite”, but he doesn’t suck either. All things considered last year, I’d say those are pretty good statistics.

by tecallion on Aug 16, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

right - he's mediocre

look – let’s cut to the chase and remove ALL the BS, the excuses, the accusations, etc. Just answer one question – with the game on the line and needing a TD to win and it’s the final possession – is DG ‘THE MAN’?

If you answer yes – please provide examples (2007 playoff not withsatnding – yes I acknowledge that) where he has consitently proven his prowess for the comeback. I’m not saying he hasn’t done it, I’m saying that when he does do it, it’s the exception and not the rule.

Here’s a little help one this:

When the Colts are in that situation the reaction of the Colts fans is ‘HEY – we have a real shot at winning – Manning’s got the ball and is going to make them pay’

Jags fans reaction – ‘please GOD, a little help here, I’ll never do xyz again, I swear.

by OGN on Aug 17, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not that simple.

Of course if there was another Peyton Manning available we’d sign him and replace Garrard. But there isn’t. I mean hell, if another Jim Brown in his prime was available, I’d sign him too and replace MJD.

As much as we all like what Gene Smith is doing with the roster, there is far from a guarantee that any QB we draft next year will ever be any better than David is right now. It’s not a video game.

by pksiv on Aug 17, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

I think people forget that, too. We can’t just replace Garrard unless we find someone better. If we didn’t have MJD, we’d probably still have Freddy, if we didn’t have Knighton, we’d probably still have Henderson, etc.

Garrard is better than half of the QBs in the league, so I’m OK with that. He’s no Manning or Schaub but at least he’s not Vince Young or Jason Campbell. BTW there aren’t many “comeback QBs” out there, every team wishes they could have a Big Ben or Peyton that consistently wins in the clutch, so Del Rio would be wise to not put Garrard in those situations.

I believe Gene is working right now on scouting the best QB to draft next year to replace Garrard, so let’s just ride DG for one more year. McGowen is not the answer, lol!

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.

by JagGameFace on Aug 17, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

sure it's that simple

he either gets it done in crunch time or he doesn’t. You either stick with proven mediocirty or you try to improve and move on. This is not that difficult. Is he the best we have on our roster at present – yes he is. Should be we aggressively be looking to replace his ass with a QB capable of getting it done in crunch time – damn straight

But hey – if you’re cool with last place finishes – by all means let’s keep the status quo

by OGN on Aug 17, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

WELL SAID....

+1000….

im tired of looking at what we pay for a mediocore QB….and to be blind to some QB, Gerrard has a better team around him the the ones of the QB listed below him, hes got at top 5 running back behind him…to tke the pressure off more then he should have too…DG dosnt have a good touch to the ball never has….thats the problem, cant read deffense….cant find the open receivers, sails balls…holds on to long, dosnt know when to throw it away, shall we go on?

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 17, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I never said that.

Of course we should be, and Gene Smith is, constantly looking to replace every single player on the roster with a player who is better. There is an entire staff that is dedicated to exactly this task.

But the fact is, that player isn’t sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. I used this in another thread already but as Vic said in one of his answers today – he’s gone out to the QB Tree and there aren’t any good ones left.

This is what we have. You can choose to be bitter about it all season long or you can support the team we have.

by pksiv on Aug 17, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

its not about....

Not supporting the team, its about not letting a guy who has had HOW many years with the team….more chances and deffending him….all fans whould be in his ass….maybe then he would get his stuff together….and preform.

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 17, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

Do you really think anything, and I mean absolutely ANYTHING, you do has any effect whatsoever on David Garrard ? Seriously ?

by pksiv on Aug 17, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

....

the performance of one can effect the out come for many……

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 17, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you think defending Garrard makes his past performances any worse?

Not saying defending your current Qb is bad, i’m just spinning the hypothetical point in a different direction.

"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"

Real fans don’t need a reason.

Gamertag: xXTealNinjaXx

by TheTealDeal on Aug 18, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

So your telling me your fine with that

All of us were not happy with going 7-9 last year. 7-9 as a record can be defined as below average or mediocre. We all want 9-7 or higher. Thats how i feel with Garrard. I’m not going to accept mediocre because mediocre isn’t going to take us anywhere. So until we find someone, we have to keep looking.

"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"

Real fans don’t need a reason.

Gamertag: xXTealNinjaXx

by TheTealDeal on Aug 18, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

No I'm not cool with mediocrity

So who do YOU suggest we replace Garrard with? Is there someone out there who will give us more “crunch time plays” this year than Garrard? I’m sure you have more insight than Gene does…

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.

by JagGameFace on Aug 17, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Wait, let me answer for you...

“No I don’t have an answer, Garrard is our best option at QB and there’s no FA that will come in and give us a better chance to win, but I still plan to complain about it all preseason & all year if I have to, b/c Gene should magically find us a new QB to replace Garrard right now so I’ll feel better!”
I’m not disagreeing with you, I believe the Jags will replace him with a better QB in the upcoming draft. But the answer is not just replacing him with McCown or some other bum that another team doesn’t want, b/c the new guy will probably do worse than Garrard as he learns the system & everyone will complain that Gene still didn’t fix the problem.

Hopefully Garrard returns to 2007 form this year but whether he does or not, he’s out the door as soon as the Jags draft a new QB.

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.

by JagGameFace on Aug 17, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

" I believe the Jags will replace him with a better QB in the upcoming draft"

You mean you believe the Jags will TRY to replace him. While next years QB crop looks to be a very good one, there’s really no guarantee that ANY of the QB’s draft next year will EVER be any better than David is right now.

That’s reality. Anyone who thinks we’re automatically going to improve at the position just because we draft a QB next year is delusional.

by pksiv on Aug 17, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree

And if we were to get a pretty good Qb, i probably wouldn’t expect him to do stellar till he’s had some time learning and getting experience.

"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"

Real fans don’t need a reason.

Gamertag: xXTealNinjaXx

by TheTealDeal on Aug 18, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we all understand each other now :-)

First off – there is nobody – NOBODY who is a bigger fan of this team than I am. If I had my way – the NFL would be completely boring and non competitive because the Jags would go undefeated and smoke everybody by 50+ points and all 22 starters at the probowl would be Jags players. EVERY YEAR!

I specifically stated that DG is the best on this roster at present. I have also stated multiple times that he’ll probably start next year as well – although I do have some thoughts on that (some that may surprise you even – but that’s another topic). I have not been clamoring for McCown or his cousin McGowen (sic) to take his place. I have suggested that McGowen (sic) start with the 1s this saturday to rattle DG’s cage a little.

Your statement above and pksiv’s – suggest your acceptance of my position that this franchise needs a new QB asap in order to seriously contend for a championship. I agree with your and pksiv’s position that that ain’t gonna happen this year. McGowen (sic) isn’t the answer and neither is picking up some else’s reject. Pksiv is quite correct in pointing out that just because we draft a #1 QB – it’s gonna all work out just because of that. There are NO guarantees. And yes, there will be a learnig curve with a new qb as well.

Where we may have been misunderstanding each other is that you believe I think we should punt DG right now and my belief that your opinion is that DG is greatest thing since sliced bread. The recent comments would suggest otherwise.

by OGN on Aug 17, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Group Hug. :-)

Driving down from Atlanta on Friday and looking forward to the game on Saturday!

And I can’t remember having a more enjoyable time than during that complete butt-kicking the Jags retired Dan Marino with. I lived in Jax and had season tickets at the time and even had the pleasure of getting some Dolphins fans who had bought stolen tickets out of my seat at the start of the action.

by pksiv on Aug 17, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL.....

I two was there….growing up loving Marino, i almost felt bad for him….but at the same time, was more ecstatic that My new beloved jags, were the ones to do it to him.

Mess With the Best Die like the Rest

by JaxBlaster on Aug 17, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I grew up in South Florida

a Dolphins fan too. But being in Jax when the team was awarded, paying for season tickets a year before they even started playing games and not missing a single game, even in the preseason, for 5 years certainly changed that.

by pksiv on Aug 17, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

My favorite game aslo / best ever attended - that and Morten anderson's missed FG

I’m flying in for the Denver game and the Philly game also. I have at least 2 more games that I will be attending (and maybe more) but have not decided which they will be – one will probably be the Colts and the other the Tits.

by OGN on Aug 17, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That Morten Anderson game

is the only regular season game I attended, before or since, that I actually got up and walked out. I was waiting for my date to come out of the bathroom when I heard the roar of the crowd. Still can’t believe it. Those next few weeks were so memorable… ah, the good ol’ days when EVERYONE loved the Jaguars.

by pksiv on Aug 17, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still remeber my brother who was 14 tackling my seven year old self and we both kept screaming for joy until my mom yelled to shut it! oh, 1996….only sad point was Ty Law running back that fumble at NE…

Waber-Jaguar

by jawsaints on Aug 17, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

You guys are funny, thanks for the 'group hug'

Lol, there was never a misunderstanding on my part, I simply stated that there’s no need bashing Garrard all season, he is what he is. He will never be Mr. Clutch, he will never be Joe Montana, and I don’t think there’s any doubt that when Gene pulls the trigger on a QB in the 1st or 2nd round of the 2011 NFL Draft that Garrard days are numbered.

I wasn’t attacking anyone either – I was responding to the article which suggested that there was a QB controversy, and there’s no way that McGowen is the answer. And I was making it clear that going into the season with Garrard was in no way being satisfied with mediocrity or defending him as the future of the franchise. In a perfect world, Gene will continue to draft guys that are better than the current starters, NFL players have a short lifespan.

Of course we can’t guarantee that the new QB will be any better than Garrard, but all we can do is address the position and let the chips fall where they may.

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.

by JagGameFace on Aug 17, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was so excited because we just made playoffs

that I grabbed the poor woman next to me and gave her a big smack on the cheek. She was a really good sport about it. I then proceded to high five everybody in sight. Great memory :-)

by OGN on Aug 17, 2010 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

McCown on Fri threw the ball exceptionally well

Time & time again, he threw it into small windows. The Q is can he do it again or was he just feeling it?

FSU football is the new case study for the outliners phenomon

by CJNole on Aug 17, 2010 4:22 PM EDT reply actions  

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