Response to John Clayton's list
by Joe Fisher on Aug 31, 2010 12:44 PM EDT
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John Clayton throws around the “elite” label way too much, but then again, our world is one of hyperbole and lists.
When it comes to elite quarterbacks, I can only think of maybe 5 or 6. My definition of elite is once you get there, you don’t lose that label unless you putz around for 5 years and go Steve Blass.
I'll get to my list after I get some wetnaps as I have pizza grease on my keyboard
My list of current “elite” qbs is:
Brady
P. Manning
Favre – too many “F*** it!” throws.
Ben Roethlisberger
Brees
E. Manning (If Brees, then gotta include Eli)- can’t discount the ring and the moxie in that game.
Almost there (near the top of the mountain either side)
"The Danny's (Marino and Fouts)"
McNabb – best days behind him?
Rivers
Romo
Rodgers
Ryan
Flacco
C. Palmer
Schaub
Next big thing
“The Joe Namath Divison”
Henne
Stafford
Kolb
Bradford
Maybe next big thing
“The Greg Cook/Bert Jones Divison”
Sanchez
Freeman
M. Moore/ Claussen
A. Smith
Jury’s out
“the Jim Everett/Jeff George Division”
Cutler
Orton
V. Young
J. Campbell
Garrard
Delhomme
Cassell
Hasselbeck
We’re screwed!
“Spurgeon Wynn Memorial Division”
* Leinart/ D. Anderson
Edwards
* When I see Leinart, I am reminded of something I was once told by one of my bosses:
"Before you try to learn the tricks of the trade, first learn the trade."
Leinart to me has the tools, but he seems more preoccupied with being a posterboy NFL qb than a bona fide NFL starter. See also, Quinn, Brady and maybe Sanchez, Mark.
Damn! Shocked I got all 32 teams on the first try. Not including the Steelers pupu platter of Leftwich, Dixon or Batch) as they are probably all in the jury’s out category and it’d make 33.
Probably similar to Clayton’s list, but that’s how I see it. Any more than 6 quarterbacks, especially putting in guys without rings (that they themselves commandeered their teams to) waters down the list.
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No way
I’d say Eli Manning is Elite. Very good yes. Elite. No.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's and LB's ability to cover a TE.
you don't know what the hell you're talking about
Just kidding. (wanted to go for shock factor.)
My criteria for “elite” status was the ring and starting qb. Everything we’re told about great quarterbacks is that they must have the ring. Now I know that for every Dan Marino, Dan Fouts or Fran Tarkenton, there’s a Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, and Trent Dilfer. It happens, sometimes journeymen hop on the gravy train.
For one stretch of the playoffs, Eli was nails. Then in the last minutes vs NE, he did what we demand of all great qbs- he led his team with brass throws and a bit of luck, but take nothing away from him, he did it in the biggest stage, not just in the Egg Bowl.
As for the “possibly” guys, that was merely my take on where I see them going. From what I’ve seen of those guys in a very short sampling, I think I’ll take Matt Stafford over Mark Sanche even though the Lions may never be on par with the Jets record wise. Stafford showed me a lot in that Cleveland game last year. That’s a leader.
Look at it this way: Does Stafford need a Mark Brunell to basically show him how to be a pro? There’s your answer.
I understand about the ring
and Eli did play very well late in that game. But we all know the Giants won that Super Bowl because of the DE’s. Eli would never win a shoot out with Brady, his Big Brother or Drew Brees.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's and LB's ability to cover a TE.
well,
with that logic couldn’t you say the same for Ben? 1st ring he was awful in that game. He was pretty much a game manager. 2nd game, he did what he had to do and completed an amazing throw to Holmes, but aside from that, 1 TD and 1 pick in the game and a 93 rating.
Like I said, you do it on the biggest stage, I think that’s pretty damn elite. But hey everyone’s criteria is different. Some think Ken Anderson was elite not only because of the kick ass moustache, but the 70% completion percentage. Some think Marino because of the ridiculous numbers he put up, Otto Graham for the championships, you name it.
My point is and was, that guys like Clayton thrive on hyperbole and throw around the word “great” as if there should be about 2000 people enshrined in Canton right now. Let’s see some body of work before we start calling this guy or that guy elite. Hell, look at the early 80’s, you could make the argument that there were about 20 “elite” quarterbacks by Clayton’s definition.
Also, I’ll give you a partial on the Defensive line play. However, Coughlin and Gilbride had a damn stout offensive gameplan in place for New England that night.
great back and forth by the way!
love football talk that is like this. This is sports bar talk, my friend.
Had Ben only had the first ring
I’d totally agree with you. But the 2nd ring he came up big and he not only did it on the big stage, he did it all year long.
I’d still put him a step below guys like Peyton and Drew Brees, but he’s significantly above Eli in my opinion.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's and LB's ability to cover a TE.
And I think
The Next Big Thing category should have a “Possibly” label added too it.
There’s no guarantee that any of those guys ever become more than average.
DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's and LB's ability to cover a TE.
My list is better. It is not based on rings, but talent, decision making, and ability to take over games.
QBs
Elite, doesn’t need SB Ring
P. Manning
Brady
Brees
Favre
Rodgers
McNabb
Roethlisberger
Rivers
-some drop off, but could be elite
Schuab
Romo
Palmer (had a lot of potential when he first came out)
somewhat bigger drop off
Ryan
Flacco
Kolb
Bradford
Henne
Culter
Orton
Hasselbeck (could have been elite)
Delhomme
-large drop off—
Garrard
Cassell
Campbell
Moore
Young
Smith
Sanchez
Edwards
Worst in League
Leinart/Anderson
I'd
Bump Sanchez down one, and I totally agree about Stafford as being the next big thing. I thought he was overrated going into the draft and the season. But now I think he is one of the best young QBs in the league. Against Cleveland he showed great leadership, and he has the tools and head on his shoulders. If only he ran a 4.5…
If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik
As much as I like Sanchez, I agree.
Sanchez will be good in another 2 years or so, when he fully matures. He’s shown flashes, but Stafford is ready to break out now.
i think stafford is the answer to that 50 year “curse” of bobby lane….seriously he is drafted the year after the worse they could possibly be as a franchchise, he is a QB and hes the best QB theyve had in what 20 years?
Waber-Jaguar
I agree. Dude is legit.
"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Sep 6, 2010 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Rodgers is easily an elite quarterback
As for the rest of the assessments I must assume that age and perceived potential play a large part in your ratings. If we are talking about playing a game tomorrow I don’t see how you can make your “Jeff George” division less then your “Bert Jones” division. I would take any of the Jeff George sans Young and Delhomme over any of the Bert Jones quarterbacks. Of course if you were starting a franchise I might agree with your ratings.
Good list, I like the debate.
Damn these Lortabs
My point on the divisions was this
Bert Jones Division- guys with upside who could be great and work their way into the Dannys or could crap out. You remember Bert Jones? Hell of a qb, rifle arm, but bum shoulder. I feel his tragic career path was one of the huge deathblows to the Baltimore Colts and their tenure in Baltimore. In my view, the difference between these guys and my guys in the Namath group is the “eye test”. You see a guy like Stafford and it’s like damn, this guy is the real deal. He just commands respect and again, go back to that Cleveland game and watch the NFL Films part where he’s miked. Great theater!
Jeff George Division- guys who I feel have or are very close to having reached their potential. Peter Principle if you will. Some have shown flashes, others as the great poet Dennis Green once said “are who we thought they were.”
Good points
I understand where your coming from, part of it would probably be me overrating some guys and underrating others. I just don’t think that the potential of any of those quarterbacks you listed in your Jeff George division, especially of the Panthers duo and Alex Smith, overrides the talent/provenness/overall skill of those in the Bert Jones division.
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