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Is he a "Gene guy"?

Over the course of the past two years, Gene Smith has drafted, shall we say, "differently" than we expected.  From surprise draft picks to high-priced free agents, Smith has surprised us at every turn.  This has built a vision of Gene Smith's ideal player in the eyes of Jaguars fans.  They refer to these players as "Gene guys".  If a player doesn't meet these criteria, he is considered to not be a "Gene guy".  Here's why excluding players who aren't "Gene guys" from draft projections is a bunch of garbage:

Star-divide

The vision of a "Gene guy" is a player who is a team captain, a senior, has no character issues, and is a "safe" pick (at least in the earlier rounds).  This is flawed logic.

Gene Smith has drafted 15 players over the past two years.  They are as follows:

2009:  Eugene Monroe (Virginia), Eben Britton (Arizona), Derek Cox (William & Mary), Terrance Knighton (Temple), Mike Thomas (Arizona), Jarett Dillard (Rice), Zach Miller (Nebraska-Omaha), Rashad Jennings (Liberty), Tiquan Underwood (Rutgers)

2010:  Tyson Alualu (California), D'Anthony Smith (Louisiana Tech), Larry Hart (Central Arkansas), Austen Lane (Murray State), Deji Karim (Southern Illinois), Scotty McGee (James Madison)

Of these players, five (Monroe, Britton, Thomas, Underwood, Alualu) come from BCS automatic qualifier conferences.  The other ten come from smaller, lower-profile schools.  It seems that Gene Smith has a thing for small-school guys.  In an interview with the Times-Union's Tania Ganguli, he even admits as much:

"Small-college guys typically don't get overdrafted," Smith said. "I do think you can get value in small-college guys. We do the work on every player in the draft, regardless of where you come from. We scout the player, not the school."

Small schools definitely produce NFL talent; the question is, is there anything specific we know about small-school players?  This information is impossible to find without spending countless hours scouring the internet, but from what I know about smaller school players, the following is usually true:

  • Small-school players that are good enough to play in the NFL are usually players who were not highly thought-of coming out of high school, and thus usually stay until their Senior season to develop.  By my count, 49 of the 56 underclassmen this year are from BCS automatic-qualifier schools, so this at least supports this thesis.
  • Small-school players that are good enough to play in the NFL usually have few to no character concerns due to the fact that the deck is already stacked against them coming from smaller schools.  This isn't easy info to find, so this is merely conjecture, but I personally believe this is usually the case.
  • Small-school players that are good enough to play in the NFL are usually team captains, as they are not only the elite players on their team, but also in their conference.  Even if players are not natural leaders, elite players are usually made team captains simply because they lead with their play on the field.

This suggests that the vast majority of small-school players selected in the NFL draft will be Senior captains with few to no character concerns.  Sound familiar?  Let's look at the bigger-school guys, then.

There were 255 total draft picks in 2010; it's safe to assume there will be a similar number of picks this year.  The total number of underclassmen in the draft this year?  56.  That would mean that if every underclassmen were drafted (unlikely), approximately 22% of the players drafted would be underclassmen (close to one in five).  Out of the five (a fortunate coincidence for our purposes here) players from BCS automatic-qualifier schools Gene Smith has selected in two years as the Jaguars' GM, he has chosen...wait for it...one underclassman (Eben Britton).  One in five.  Sound familiar?  This is not out of line with what you'd expect on a whole.  Obviously this is not conclusive evidence of anything; I used the number of 2010 draft picks, the number of 2011 underclassmen, and excluded small-school players from my results but not from my sample.  This doesn't prove anything; it's just something to think about.

It is true that Gene Smith has taken supposedly "safe" players in the first two rounds in both 2009 and 2010; however, I don't believe it has anything to do with his personal mindset.  The positions he selected were offensive tackle (twice) and defensive tackle.  These are two of the safest positions to draft, especially offensive tackles; usually even if a tackle doesn't succeed at tackle he can be moved to guard and have decent success.  These positions are "safer" on a whole.  This doesn't mean that Gene Smith prefers "safe" players; it means that the positions he was trying to fill on his football team were positions that are usually considered "safe".  Furthermore, Smith has come out of left field with the vast majority of his picks from the third round and later, so I don't see why being a "safe" pick is something that people would consider to be a quality of a "Gene guy".

Let's not forget the fact that two years is barely any amount of time for a sample.  15 draft picks isn't nearly enough to establish what kind of players Gene Smith prefers.  This seems too obvious to bother including in this post, but Jaguars fans seem to continue to discount this fact.

Overall, the logic just crashes and burns.  Gene likes small-school guys, who are usually Senior captains with no character issues.  When he doesn't pick small school guys, he doesn't take more seniors than one would expect in any five-pick sample.  Being a Senior captain may enhance a player's value slightly, but the problem people seem to have is that they EXCLUDE players who do not meet the criteria of a "Gene guy", which is garbage.  If Gene Smith thinks Aldon Smith is easily the best player available at 16, do you think he'll pass on him due to the fact that he's a Sophomore non-captain?  Absolutely not!  If Adrian Clayborn is at the top of Smith's board at 16, he'll be the pick, regardless of any incidents in his past.

At this point, after only two years, it's impossible to tell what a "Gene guy" is, if that distinction even exists.  To be a "Gene guy", I would contend, one must be an excellent football player.  That's the only absolute I can see.

Comment 111 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

However...

“Furthermore, Smith has come out of left field with the vast majority of his picks from the third round and later, so I don’t see why being a “safe” pick is something that people would consider to be a quality of a “Gene guy”."

Just because the picks were unexpected, doesn’t mean that they weren’t intended to be safe.

And then the reason for the whole “safe” thing is I believe he was quoted as saying he likes safe picks using the base hit to home run metaphor. If that quote doesn’t exist, whoops. But if it does, then obviously us fans have a reason for expecting him to pass on players who have the perception of being risky picks, at least early in the draft.

@foryourhandicap

by uclatroy on Jan 27, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

When he made that statement,

I interpreted it as saying that if he had two players rated similarly he would take the one with less downside more often. That doesn’t in any way mean to exclude Aldon Smith because he’s more of a “home run” type of pick.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure...

I don’t think he is excluding somebody for that reason. But it could make him lower on his draft board.

@foryourhandicap

by uclatroy on Jan 27, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps

I’d think he’d be more likely to use it to break ties, not to move them around on the board. If he has Smith rated as, say, a 90 out of 100, and he has Kerrigan rated an 88, I don’t see him hopping Kerrigan over Smith simply because Kerrigan is safer. If they’re both 90s, I could see it.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

If Gene had him rated a 90

That would include his complete ranking, including character.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 27, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

We were talking about "single" vs. "home run",

not character.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand what you're saying...

But character is part of the Gene Smith ranking system. SO if two guys are ranked a 90, then character is already factored in and then the tie breaker would obviously go to the guy without the distractions.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 27, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think you are

I said if Gene Smith had Aldon Smith (zero character issues) as a 90 and Kerrigan (zero character issues) as an 88, he wouldn’t take Kerrigan simply because he’s a “base hit” as opposed to Smith, who would be a “home run” type of pick. Zero references to character.

I then said that if Smith and Kerrigan were both 90s that he might use “base hit” vs. “home run” logic to break the tie. Again zero references to character.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 8:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Base hit vs. home run

Eugene Monroe vs. Orakpo, Maybin, Crabtree, Maclin, etc

Alualu vs. JPP, Derrick Morgan, Brandon Graham, Earl Thomas, etc

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 28, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Again...
I’d think he’d be more likely to use it to break ties, not to move them around on the board.

Still applies. Also, how was Alualu a “safe” pick? I’d say that’s just as much a “home run” pick. Thomas or Morgan would’ve been the “safe” picks there, IMO.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 28, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

“Thomas or Morgan would’ve been the "safe" picks there, IMO.”

I don’t agree with that. Alualu is the perfect example of a safe pick, not that he doesn’t have a lot of upside.

@foryourhandicap

by uclatroy on Jan 28, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Gene goes off his rankings plain and simple

I think we can all agree with that without goin out on a limb… that Gene is a BAP guy. No SH*% right? BUT it’s how he gets to those rankings where you’re missin somethin. IMO there is NO doubt that guys get moved around or taken off his board based on a lot of different things a lot of which you seem to be discounting. Points are deducted when guys get in trouble. Points are deducted for maturity. Guys who have shown more, not gotten in trouble at all, were named team captain, etc get graded higher. I also think a lot of people are missing the point that it’s not just a Gene thing, it’s a scouting staff thing. Gene has a direction and a strategy and a lot of faith in his staff to give him the most complete picture humanly possible.

The home run picks in both drafts would be the younger, higher upside, measurables guys in the “skill” positions right? The “base hit” guys are the highest character, more mature, more sure thing in positions of less risk. You know what to expect from them vs. what you dream them to be one day. In no way shape or form is Alualu a Sr DT a “home run pick” over an underclassman athletic FS like Thomas. Although I think he hit a home run in drafting Alualu… love that guy.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 28, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

You have too many different criteria

You’ve basically stated that to be a “base hit” pick, a player must be high character, more mature, more sure thing, and a less risk position. What if a player is three of those, but not all four?

I’m not discounting him using different criteria in his rankings. This story is about how I don’t believe he takes guys off the board that don’t meet his idea of a “Gene guy”. If Clayborn is highest on his board, I believe he takes him. Some people seem to believe that since Clayborn has had character issues, he is off of Gene’s board. I think we’re both thinking the same thing but stating it differently.

Morgan and Thomas were guys that most people believed to be safe players…that is, at worst they would be a decent starter or very good backup. Alualu may have been a similar player, but he was definitely not MORE safe. They were probably all similar in terms of safety.

I do believe that downside is something that isn’t weighed as heavily with higher draft picks. If you like a player better than another player, pick the one you like better, even if he’s got more downside. That said, if the two players are rated the same, take the one with less downside. That’s what I was trying to say. Does that make sense?

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 28, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes sense

Let me shorten my point up for you as well because I do agree with a lot of what you’re saying,

I disagree with this part:

“I don’t believe he takes guys off the board that don’t meet his idea of a "Gene guy".”

I absolutely think he does. And my whole too long for TV point was that if Gene had an issue, he wouldn’t be that high or even on his board at all.

I agree with this part:

“If Clayborn is highest on his board, I believe he takes him. Some people seem to believe that since Clayborn has had character issues, he is off of Gene’s board.”

I don’t think Clayborn is the risk everybody is exaggerating him to be and if the guy is on the board at the slot, then Gene takes him.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 28, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think

that he really takes players completely off his board, with a few exceptions, assuming they have talent; but in effect he does because of how much lower he has the character-issue players they are effectively off his board because some other team is bound to take the questionable player first.

by Ewdtrey on Jan 29, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Hold on here

Maclin, Derrick Morgan, and Brandon Graham were all considered base hits at the very least.

by Ewdtrey on Jan 29, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Thumbs up.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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by JLydon37 on Jan 27, 2011 2:20 PM EST reply actions  

Nice article

I like that I learn something from each of Gene’s drafts. The first draft taught me to not hesitate when rebuilding. In other words, don’t let guys that are underachievers and overpaid hang around at all. His second draft taught me not to overlook any players and not worry about anyone else’s board. I think his third draft will basically be me assuming whoever Gene drafts will pan out. Instead of thinking ‘Oh, I hope he’ll be good,’ I’ll be thinking ‘Ah, I knew he’d be good!’

by unbiased5 on Jan 27, 2011 2:21 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Not all of Gene's picks pan out

Britton, Dillard, and Miller have had injury issues and have been inconsistent when healthy. Underwood and Lane were pretty bad. Smith and McGee haven’t played at all yet. Cox and Karim have been inconsistent. He hit on Monroe, Knighton, Mike Thomas, and Alualu, which is a solid success rate, but we can’t just assume that any player he picks will be good.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Karim inconsistant in what way......

save injury. I thought he did a pretty good job as a return man for this year…..constantly.

by GAJAGFAN on Jan 27, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember the Washington game?

He did a solid job this year, but a consistent return man should have pretty much zero mistakes. The kickoff he screwed up in overtime of the Washington game helped cost us a potential win. I still love Karim; I’m just saying that right now he’s a middle-of-the-road return man, which isn’t bad for a rookie, but isn’t a definite “hit”.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

That’s exactly what inconsistent means

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn't 1 mistake pretty much 0

If a guy only makes 1 mistake all year, isn’t that pretty good. Or do we want FULL CONSISTENCY?

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 27, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

He had plenty of returns where a different cut would've resulted in more yardage

He also fumbled the ball four times this year, three of which were on kickoff returns. He was solid, but he had plenty of errors.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I also noticed this too. Took the wrong lane at times when it looked obvious to go the other way……..tunnel vision.

"SALTWATERJAG"

by SALTWATERJAG on Jan 30, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I know

But that was also post injury

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 27, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought

that was more for a spark and because injuries to the normal 45 than because anything bad that he did.

by Ewdtrey on Jan 29, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions  

You're saying

he’s inconsistent because of one play? Really? Is he supposed to be a robot? Humans make mistakes. Anyone is inconsistent, including all KR’s, with that criteria. That includes Devin Hester, who may be the best KR of all time. He muffs punts about 3 times as much as Deji has messed up. Not to mention that was a difficult situation for Karim. The ball took a weird path.

by Ewdtrey on Jan 29, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions  

...

I was referring to his two posts, one praising his effort against Oakland and one saying he screwed up in Washington. My meaning was that doing great one game and horribly the next is the definition of inconsistency.

Karim fumbled four times this year and made a few other mistakes as well. He was solid, but it’s not like he was amazing. He wasn’t even the best rookie kick returner in the division.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 29, 2011 2:33 AM EST up reply actions  

That last comment is misleading

and you know it. That guy was the best in the league and even he lost a fumble costing the team a game.

by Ewdtrey on Jan 31, 2011 4:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't label Underwood or Lane misses just yet.

Their first year of playing time is hardly enough to tell what they will be down the road. You know that. Lane was supposed to be a developmental prospect, but he was forced into action when the others were hurt or terrible cough Derrick Harvey cough. I’m not saying either one is great by any stretch, but I wouldn’t say they were pretty bad.

by packerman on Jan 27, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't count them out

but they definitely have not “panned out” yet

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Lane has panned out

By most accounts. He is expected to be getting decent playing time. It fits where he was drafted.

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by DownTownJax on Jan 27, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree

“Panned out” does not mean he’s where you’d expect him to be at this point in his career. “Panned out” means Lane turned out to be a contributor to the team. So far he is absolutely not a positive contributor; he got a negligible amount of pressure as a DE and also got blocked out of plenty of running plays. I like Lane’s potential, but he absolutely has not panned out as of yet.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Most sources I have seen

don’t back up what you are saying. Gene Smith liked his play and expects good things. For a first year player he has most certainly contributed.

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by DownTownJax on Jan 27, 2011 10:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I don't think you get what I'm saying

If from this point forward, Austen Lane never improved, he’d be considered a failure. Unless he continues to improve, he will not be an NFL starter. I believe he can improve, and I’m sure so do the Jaguars. That said, if he never gets any better than he is right now, he has most certainly NOT “panned out”. Until he actually DOES improve, he doesn’t count as having “panned out” despite the fact that he has the potential to improve.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I see your point of view

But I feel like you are being overly harsh on his performance by grouping him in with the others. Meeting expectations is a good thing. He certainly can’t be considered a waste at this point.

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by DownTownJax on Jan 28, 2011 7:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Not YET panning out and "a waste" are absolutely not the same thing

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 28, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree

meeting expectations up to the point where he is being judged is a success draft in my book. It’s not like the things can’t change. I mean, if Potroast were to balloon up to 500 lbs and stop trying and end his career on past results, wouldn’t you have to change his status to not “panned out” ? I certainly would, regardless of what he’s done for 2 years. You don’t draft guys to be successful for 2 years.

DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.

by pksiv on Jan 28, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

...

I consider a player as having “panned out” when, if he continues to play at the same level he is currently at for the rest of his career, he would be a solid NFL player. I don’t consider a player as having panned out until he actually becomes a solid NFL player.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 28, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

And yes, I would change Knighton

Just because a pick is successful doesn’t mean it can’t become unsuccessful if something bad happens. I don’t consider a pick successful until the player performs at a high level, though.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 28, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

No

Doing so at this point is premature. All you can look for is if a player is meeting expectations. It almost seems that according to Caljag, they either have an all pro rookie season or they haven’t panned out yet.

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by DownTownJax on Jan 28, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

You are absolutely missing what I'm saying

Do you consider Austen Lane an ultimately successful draft pick? I don’t. I consider him a C or C+ at the moment. He’s met expectations, but he hasn’t succeeded them. He was okay, but probably below-average on the field. That’s to be expected of a young player. I would say that if Austen Lane plays for the rest of his career at the same level he played this year, he would be out of the league after a few years.

Let’s think of it this way: after year one, did you consider Derrick Harvey as having been an ultimately successful pick? He had a very similar season to Lane and was honestly probably a bit better. I did not consider Harvey a successful pick; he had a decent start, but he had another few steps to take before being considered a successful pick (if you haven’t noticed, I’ve substituted “successful pick” for “panning out”; they mean the same thing, IMO). Over the next couple years, Harvey proceeded to barely improve if he even improved at all. Ultimately, he can now be considered an unsuccessful pick. If Lane plays the next two years at the level he played this year, he’ll be Derrick Harvey. Is that a successful pick to you?

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 28, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

You have a very strict definition of panning out.

I completely understand. My definition is a lot more loose and fluid. I see panning out as being a shade above mediocre and getting playing time in the first year. I’m guessing McCourty is one of the few picks that you consider to have already panned out. Maybe Suh, but he’s a high pick. We just have different understandings of what panning out means.

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by DownTownJax on Jan 28, 2011 8:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It's not fair to compare the expectations of a first round pick with the expectations of a 5th round pick.

Lane’s performance is about that of what you would expect from a 5th round pick that was brought in as a project and to add depth. Harvey was a failure because he was brought in to have an immediate impact. Different expectations even though there was a similar performance.

by packerman on Jan 28, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Think about it this way

if Lane only becomes a good backup, which I think he is already at the very least, he was a successful 5th round pick, hence he has panned out.
And also, isn’t meeting expectations nearly the very definition of succeeding?

by Ewdtrey on Jan 29, 2011 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

If you believe that if Lane should be considered a successful pick even if he doesn't improve from this point,

then that’s legitimate. My argument is that until he’s at the level that’s considered a successful pick, he hasn’t panned out.

I will not be happy with the Lane pick if he never improves. Let’s put it that way.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 29, 2011 2:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Well that depends on what is expected…If someone expects you to be ok and you are ok is that a success…I just heard the bell I think you need to go to fifth period common sense..

by justkizzit on Jan 31, 2011 6:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Did you read my college degree analogy below?

That should answer your question

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 28, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

We are talking

about a rookie! If Bradford never improved he would be considered a bust. 95% of rookies have not panned out yet.
Lets see: Suh, Alualu, Pouncey, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, and Alterraun Verner would be the only rookies that have panned out by your standards then.

by Ewdtrey on Jan 29, 2011 1:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Pretty much

I would agree that about 95% of rookies have not panned out yet.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 29, 2011 2:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Once again

Suhs numbers are off the charts this past year…Pouncey was the best Oline man the Steelers had it was said…McCourty made Pro Bowl as a rookie, Gronkowski definitely played extremely well and also had Hernandez playing to…Alualu had average numbers for a DT bottom line…If he gets better he is a success if not hes a bust for a tenth pick in a draft at DT…because there are plenty of DTs you havent heard of with the same number…

by justkizzit on Jan 31, 2011 6:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Alualu is tied for 16th among DTs in sacks this season.

That’s really good for a rookie. He is at least better than half of the DTs in the league in terms of stats. That is what you are basing the entirety of your argument around. He also had 38 total tackles. That’s only 1 less than B.J. Raji, a guy who most consider a rising star.

Also, among all rookie defensive linemen, he is 3rd in total tackles and 5th in sacks. Among rookie defensive tackles, he is 2nd to Suh in sacks and tied for 2nd in tackles. Being that there were only 3 rookies in the Pro Bowl, I’d say that the selection was pretty okay.

by packerman on Jan 31, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

your right, and im very excited to see what dillard, D'anthony Smith, and Mcgee can do next year;

Britton has to be healthier with his shoulder, i think when Miller was healthy he was good..im almost sold on Cox as the year went down the stretch, i was going crazy numerous times this year from him-a) Dallas game 2 picks, 2nd Titans game he came up big on a couple plays and had a pick as well, the 2nd Indy game he was shut down on wayne and had a couple good plays, and finally the Redskins game, his interception barely getting feet in was impressive..as for the rest, you are dead on..Underwood had one good game as he was pretty much the whole last drive against Indy making a couple big plays to set up the Scobee field goal..but then again, how many times has he dropped key balls, i dont want him either.

by FgallosJAGS on Jan 27, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Dillard has been consistent

He just hasn’t been healthy.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

by DownTownJax on Jan 27, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

It's still not good enough

To be full consistency. He managed to see the field in a few games. We want FULL INJURY CONSISTENCY!

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

by DownTownJax on Jan 28, 2011 10:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I guess I am the only person that knows Gene Smith was head of scouting for years before his GM job…So he is just as reponsible for the Byron Leftwichs Reggie Williams and RJ Sowards… To think not, you are drinking Koolaid…

by justkizzit on Jan 27, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Who were you responding to?

Your post doesn’t seem to have any context. You replied to me, but your post has nothing to do with mine.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually

Being head of scouting only gave him the responsibility for grading players. Not for deciding where they were selected during draft day.

DG is the best we have and help is not on the way. I realize he's not perfect, but I feel a lot better about him at QB than I do the O-Line, DB's, or LB's ability to cover a TE.

by pksiv on Jan 28, 2011 8:59 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Partially responsible

maybe, but just as responsible: NO
Might as well blame a west coast only scout for drafting Harvey.

by Ewdtrey on Jan 29, 2011 1:43 AM EST up reply actions  

If that's true,

then we have zero idea of who HAS as well.

My argument is that “panning out” is akin to a college degree. Over the course of several years, you complete coursework and learn valuable skills to become whatever it is you want to be. When you finally complete the required coursework and learn everything required to be a college graduate, you are given a college degree. If you take two years of classes and then drop out, sure you’ve learned some over the two years, but not enough to be considered a college graduate or get the degree. The same goes for NFL players…as a prospect, they learn and improve, but until they finally reach the “graduation” phase, I don’t consider them as having panned out. If they flame out on the way to the “degree”, they’re still a bust.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 28, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey man

I think you wrote a good article and were on the right track, but when you started grading draft picks and saying that not all of Gene’s draft picks pan out, I just felt differently. I’m hesitant to call a failure where you are hesitant to call success. Most will agree about Tiquan Underwood having little shot to contribute, but I honestly believe that every other player that you named has a good chance of being a solid contributor next year. I’ve seen examples of everyone except D’Anthony Smith making plays. He has been getting a lot of praise for the short work he did. It’s hard not to be optimistic about our young guys. I don’t think I’m the only one.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

by DownTownJax on Jan 28, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't disagree with this:
I honestly believe that every other player that you named has a good chance of being a solid contributor next year.

Just because a player hasn’t panned out YET doesn’t mean he CAN’T pan out. Lane hasn’t panned out YET. He absolutely still can, though.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 29, 2011 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Also
I’m hesitant to call a failure where you are hesitant to call success.

I never said the Austen Lane pick was a failure. There is a difference between calling a pick a failure and not yet calling a pick a success.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 29, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

You're right, you didn't call him a failure

I was just trying to generalize the viewpoints.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

by DownTownJax on Jan 29, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

What you just said

made sense. But why even mention who has or hasn’t panned out yet if that’s your standard? You can’t fault Gene for what hasn’t come to pass yet. As of right now, I think all of the healthy players are getting passing grades, and thus are successful so far.

by Ewdtrey on Jan 29, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I did NOT start this sub-thread
I think his third draft will basically be me assuming whoever Gene drafts will pan out. Instead of thinking ‘Oh, I hope he’ll be good,’ I’ll be thinking ‘Ah, I knew he’d be good!’

I responded to that post by saying not all of Gene’s picks have panned out, and that’s where all of this started.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 29, 2011 2:42 AM EST up reply actions  

What are youo on?

Dillard’s only bad spell was in his first OTA season. The guy is gonna be good barring more injury issues, of that I’m sure. Great hands, great route runner, gets open. What else could you ask for? Besides some YAC.
Britton has had his rough patches, but he’s obviously a good player.
Miller has it in him, but he’s making a position switch. And if you ask most, he’s doing quite well considering.
Cox had a bad start to the year, but played well the rest of the year.
Karim was never worse than average at KR, and he’s shown a lot at RB in his short stint. Considering the thumb injury and it being his rookie year and a 6th round pick, I thought he was a homerun.

by Ewdtrey on Jan 29, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Again, like I said earlier,

saying a pick has not panned out YET is absolutely NOT the same thing as saying a pick will NEVER pan out.

I have noticed a common practice on most message boards and blogs is for people to analyze the details of an argument rather than the argument itself. My argument that not all of Gene Smith’s picks pan out has been ENTIRELY IGNORED for this entire sub-thread in favor of people attacking the specific position I took on Lane, which is that I wasn’t impressed.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 29, 2011 2:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Nope

The only negative is it’s difficult to buy tickets and get to games.
The positives are an expanding fan base and posts when you guys are asleep.

Section 442, RIP
"You think you know, but you don't know."

by unhipcat on Jan 27, 2011 3:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I was able to go to SF last year

Unfortunately I still haven’t seen the Jaguars score a TD in person.

If I have a post ready to go that I finish at night, I’ll schedule it to post in the morning the next day so you guys can get it before I wake up.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

I’m buying the team and moving it to my backyard, actually. I have a concrete pad that’d be perfect for a stadium.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice Article, I agree

Heres an interesting thought though, is it a bad thing to have people think you draft a certain type of player. From the looks of many mock drafts most people think that we are going to draft Kerrigan just because hes a “Gene Guy” and im beting many in the league will also see us looking for a “Gene Guy” type player. Couldnt Gene use this too his advantage? Im not a big draft strategy guy but if everyone expects you to draft or not draft a certain type of player couldn’t you use that to ur advantage?

"I’m going to punish him. If he hits me, fine, but if I catch him, believe me, I’m going to get the better shot." - Fred Taylor

by kterr on Jan 27, 2011 2:55 PM EST reply actions  

I doubt the other GMs see any kind of pattern

I believe it’s something that was created by fans.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

they see a pattern alright

They see a pattern of sound picks and a team who is building the right way.

by Joe Fisher on Jan 27, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure can

The draft is high-stakes poker. The better you can bluff and raise the pot, the better the payoff.

Section 442, RIP
"You think you know, but you don't know."

by unhipcat on Jan 27, 2011 3:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Too much is made of a Gene type, but there's no denying Gene will take guys off his board

He’s said as much. He will take guys off his board for having what he feels are extensive character issues. He won’t even consider them. He’s also discussed why he likes going after more mature guys who finish their degrees. The interviews are on jaguars.com man where you can hear the man say these things himself.

I personally think that too much is made of he’s a Gene guy, or he’s not a Gene guy…. and I also think this article is too much in the other direction. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle… Gene will not bring in guys detrimental to the locker room, nor will he overlook a tremendous talent because they’re not a Sr coming out.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 27, 2011 4:46 PM EST reply actions  

I agree he's not going to bring in guys that are detrimental to the locker room,

but that group isn’t very big. Adrian Clayborn got in a run-in with a taxi driver in January 2009, but does that have anything to do with how he’d be in a locker room? It’s not like the Jaguars have zero players willing to confront other people.

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Even Clean Gene

Knows it’s ok to punch a cabbie.

(Panthera onca)

by viator on Jan 27, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 27, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree on Clayborn

But I bet there are more guys scratched from the list than you think. You think Janorice Jenkins will be on his list next year? Gene has higher standards than some and gives the impression that they’re higher than most.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 27, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it’s more to do with habitual character problems. Some think it’s ANYTHING, which is absurd.

by Alfie Crow on Jan 27, 2011 9:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Thank you

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by CaliforniaJag on Jan 27, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Great Article

One thing I think Gene goes after is players with tremendous work ethics. He likes players who don’t live in the spotlight but work their butts off everyday. Monroe/Alualu for example…both players who you hardly every hear about outside life, but tremendous workers. They will be successful in the league because of their hard work. If a player shows almost any ounce of being lazy or not being a team player, i don’t see them coming to Jacksonville while Gene is GM

Jennings at the 30, at the 20, at the 10. TOUCHDOWN RASHAD JENNINGS!!

by bcrabtree4 on Jan 27, 2011 6:32 PM EST reply actions  

i dont give a crap if he’s a “Gene guy”. All i ever, ever want is someone who can play lights-out football. Period. (but no serial killers, please)

Sean

Pax Armis Acquiritur

by cuffs007 on Jan 27, 2011 8:43 PM EST reply actions  

I’ll kill a box of Peanut Butter Cap’n Crunch in a heart beat.

(Panthera onca)

by viator on Jan 27, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

WAY BACK MACHINE.

Oh man, Green Jelly.

by Alfie Crow on Jan 27, 2011 9:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

yeah. that was wayyyy back, huh? i had the cd. go figure.

Sean

Pax Armis Acquiritur

by cuffs007 on Jan 27, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, that brings back memories

I remember when they were still Green Jello. Claymation videos rocked!

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

by DownTownJax on Jan 27, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

GANGSTER

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Jan 28, 2011 7:10 AM EST up reply actions  

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