Should Khan give Gene Smith the pink slip?
by Vicbow on Dec 21, 2011 3:14 PM EST
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If it's still "in Gene we trust" for you, you have more faith than I do.
After 3 drafts, the man has yet to pick up a surefire hit. His best player as of now is Terrence Knighton. The second best is probably Tyson Alualu who might have been better this year had he not been hampered by a knee injury. The other two top 10 picks, Eugene Monroe and Blaine Gabbert, are sources of great controversy for fans. I, personally, thing Monroe is a good left tackle but not "top ten draft pick" good. It's still too early to judge Blaine but man, I sure would have more faith in Gene if the kid had really shown us something this year.
There have been no late round hits with Gene. In fact, many of those late rounders are just flat out gone. Tiquan Underwood, Scotty Mcgee, and Larry Hart are all off the roster. Two of those didn't even make it to a second season and Hart was even a 5th rounder!
Let's talk wide receiver, since Underwood came up. This area has been hugely disappointing. Usually, in their third year, wide receivers really start showing something, as was the case with Sidney Rice. Mike Thomas really failed to do that this year and was only average the past two years. Jarrett Dillard hasn't even had a chance, he's had so many injuries.
On to pass rush. This has also been a source of great frustration the past few years. Since bottoming out at 14 sacks in 09 then barely improving to 26 in '10 (still tied for 2nd to last in the league), the Jags are getting a better pass rush but haven't gotten that "it" guy who requires extra attention and has that speed and strength off the edge. It's essential if a 4-3 defense is going to dominate and Gene Smith knows that.
But what about free agency? Gene Smith was aggressive in FA this past year mostly because he had to. He hadn't been able to get the starters he needed in the draft so he had to get 5 starters from free agency (Poz, Session, Landry, Roth, and Lowery). The previous year, he made a bad judgment call and signed Aaron Kampman, who is old and plagued with injuries.
Gene has also been disappointing as a draftnik. While Ted Thompson and Bill Belichick always seem to end up with more players than they had picks at the end of draft weekend, Gene always has less. And to what end? Those players haven't been worth two picks each have they? Derek Cox? Only average when he isn't injured. Gabbert? Too soon to tell. Will Rackley? Ha! Not this year.
I've talked a lot about injuries and it's true that none of those are Gene's fault. But none of these players have proved to be great when they were healthy either.
Gene signed a three year contract extension but that was under Weaver. Khan might attract a better coaching prospect if the coach has the option of installing his system without Gene's input. So should this extension be ignored and let Gene go?
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I would be very much in favor of looking for a new GM
vut one thing you got wrong is the late hit thing. a rashad jennings in 3 yeard of draftng is enough of a late round hit record. you should not expect more than maybe 2 late round guys every 5 years or so to become much more than ST players if that.
Too easy. What position has more late round hits than running backs? WR maybe but not for this team.
so not only do you want a bunch of late round hits which is unlikely
but also at positions that are not so easy to find late round hits at?!! Then no GM is probably good enough for you
How does Jennings even qualify as a hit? He barely got any playing time when MJD was healthy so what faith does the team even have in him? He went on IR very early this season, perhaps unnecessarily. Another good sign of faith.
rashad jennings has proven to be a very effective backup to MJD
and has shown the abaility to contribute on the field. That is more than enough to qualify the 7th rounder as a “hit”
To be fair, Jennings hasn’t really proven anything but being an effective back up. He had a nice game against Houston to end the season last year, but he was also shut down by the Redskins the week prior.
And "effective backup"
doesn’t count as a hit for a 7th round pick? The guy was looking to carry more of the load this season before the injury, so I think we’ll have to see how he pans out next season, but I can’t imagine him being worse than what we have this season.
There was absolutley
nowhere to run in the Wash game. MJD wouldn’t have been effective against those front.
And to expand on...
what Jagsrok said above. He helped our run game go from 18th in 2008 to 10th in 2009. From 10th in ’09 to 3rd in ’10. To help the team in such a capacity as a 7th round pick, as stated above, should qualify him as a “hit”.
In 2009, yes. In 2010, not as much.
In 2009 we ranked 10th in rushing yards per game at 126.8. Maurice was the bulk of it at 86.9 yds/g, Garrard averaged 20.2 and Jennings averaged 13.5. That adds up to 120.6, so I’m not sure where the other 6.2 of the average came from. The 120.6 still would’ve left us ranked 10th, but take away Garrards average from that and the total goes down 100.4. That would’ve put us all the way down to 25th. So in 2009, his impact was that much at all.
But in 2010 we were 3rd at 149.7 a game. As could be expected, MJD had the most of it at 94.6 yds/g, Garrard averaged 19.9 and Jennings averaged 35.3. That totals 149.8 which means those 3 made up the entire run game last year. Take away Garrards average again and it goes down to 129.9. That would take the ranking from 3rd down to 7th.
So again, he had a much bigger impact in ‘10 than he had in ’09. I’d say that type of impact from a 7th rounder in his second season makes him more of a “hit” than a “miss”. So it’s very possible that the offense missed him more this season than we realize.
Monroe is much better than alualu
monroe is ranked 10th in pass blocking efficiency this year. up until this year he has been nothing to note but this year he has really stepped up his game.
alualu its still to early to tell he showed some promise last year then this year has done nothing because of an “injury” so we will have to wait and see for him IMO
Cold Blooded
but yes gene should go
hes an ok gm. ok gms dont win superbowls
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Dec 21, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Most GMs
Don’t win Super Bowls. How many Super Bowls did Bill Polian teams go to before they finally won a Super Bowl ?
Firing everybody every 3 years because they didn’t win a Super Bowl would turn this franchise into the Cleveland Browns.
He's probably the best tackle
from his draft class.
That's not saying much
Oher is the only other decent tackle
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
If you ain't first, you're last.
Doesn't matter.
I can only imagine what state the offensive line would be in if we didn’t have Eugene.
He's the best of that bunch
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
If you ain't first, you're last.
Even Oher isn't that great
And yeah, that’s really not saying much.
What does how bad the other Tackles are
have to do with how well Eugene is playing right now?
Respect My Authoritah
It has to do with Drafting
and how myopic everyone is being. No GM hits every draft and since no OT is better than Monroe should all of those other GM’s be fired too ?
and he's not playing the position he was drafted for either
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Exactly
so the Jags came out good on that pick
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
If you ain't first, you're last.
Might be the best
LT since that draft. The only player you could argue is better is Tyron Smith, but he would’ve cost a 9th overall pick and he’s only played RT and that’s also assuming he would improve.
I like Gene
and Kampman was a decent sign. I think he’s a big part of what has turned Mincey’s career around.
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Impossible to prove. Mincey was injured his first few years so he didn’t really have a chance. Also, he’s not “great”.
he's really good though
getting pressure like every play.
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"thanks for hating"
"Give it up now before its too late!…. CJ will be shut down? Nevermind, its already too late." AZ TiTan10
by rhettchrystal on Dec 21, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think not being injured is what turned Mincey’s career around. What in the world would Gene Smith have to do with it?
He kept him on the roster
that has to count for something.
Respect My Authoritah
If you're going to consider injured guys
busts that reflect poorly on the GM, than don’t you have to attributed healthy guys who improve to the GM as well ? ;-)
Derek Cox
Played very well in mam to man coverage. Example: Baltimore game
Take stock in your lives, but leave your livestock alone
Average at best?
That’s just stubborn. He was above average and looking like a long term fixture at cornerback before his injury. He has shown that he might pan out as a decent pick.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
by DownTownJax on Dec 21, 2011 5:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He played six out of 11 games this year. His loss wasn’t noticeable on the field. He looked great against Baltimore, but after that he was ok.
He’s yet to be worth trading up to get.
I don't disagree
But I think he could be a long term starter, which is a good use of a second round pick. He has yet to prove it, but he is performing well enough at times to justify the pick. Using Cox as an example of what Gene did wrong is either premature or nitpicking. For now.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
by DownTownJax on Dec 21, 2011 9:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
His loss was noticeable
His tackling has been missed some and he was giving up very few explosive plays, making QB’s hold on to the ball longer which got the pass rush there a little more often.
Frankly if you go back and look at 2nd round picks at that position, I think you have to say he was a great pick.
2011 Brandon Harris, Ras-I Dowling, Aaron Williams, Gilchrist (1st rounders: Jimmy Smith, Amukamara)
2010 Javier Arenas(1st rounder: Kareem Jackson is definitely not as good as Derek)
2009 Sherrod Martin, Sean Smith (Malcolm Jenkins and Vontae Davis were first round picks.)
You could argue that Derek was better than all of these CB’s, all whom of which cost more than Derek.
Yoda-ism
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
The Problem with our Wide recievers is that they're never wide open and they have trouble receiving the ball...
by TheTealDeal on Dec 21, 2011 9:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Let's clean house totally
Let’s clean house totally and not put any hinderance in our pursuit of another regime to include coach and GM. New owner, new coach, and why not new GM. Clean the house!!
Understandable
An impulse bred by a losing season. I want to see how Gabbert and the next draft class pans out though.
Well that new owner must believe in Gene
so that’s why no new GM.
Respect My Authoritah
I believe this entire article is ridiculous. You can't sit back and judge a GM pick by pick and then say if he's a good or bad GM. That's nonsense!
You look at the team as a whole and you ask the question, “is this team a better team than before (fill in the blank) got here?” If the answer is yes, then there’s not much else to talk about. I guarantee if we sit back and analyze every other GM in the leauge like we go Gene we’d see something like the same thing (generally a gm is called “good” when he has a winning team and “bad” when they’re losing. But would GB be winning without Rodgers but with the same D? How about the Patriots without Brady? The Saints without Brees? Those are all good GMs too right? IT’S THE QB! A good QB covers all personel flaws. IF Gabbert grows to what we hope for (or if we get someone who does, no one is talking about this…point blank, period.
The cupboard was bare when Gene got here and anyone who watches this team knows that. He cleaned house initially and in that process HAD to give away some of those draft picks just to fill a moderately complete team (aka traded pick for Morrison and Monroe picks). When you look at this team now, is the cupboard full? No. But is it IMMENSELY more promising than before Gene got here? HELL YEA! Nothin else to talk about….
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
So I'll reiterate: I do believe in Gene. WHEN the Jags get ONE winning season it will multiply into MANY winning seasons using this approach...it will likely fall on Blaine and the WRs.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
The cupboard wasn’t bare. Gene Smith made it bare by completely gutting the roster so he could install his own players. It was no more bare than when Shack Harris took over in 2003. He didn’t “have” to give away those picks he did. He did it to get the guys he wanted. He’d have given up more, too if the Eagles didn’t scoff at his trade to try to get Sean Lee.
Is he bad? No, not necessarily. He’s not nearly as good as people have made him out to be, however.
The problem is, the best players on this football team are still not Gene Smith players and he’s yet to draft a difference maker.
I think you mean one of his draft picks has yet to develop into a "difference maker"
Respect My Authoritah
Eugene Monroe...
doesn’t count as a difference maker yet?
so Monroe and Knighton don't make a difference?
Respect My Authoritah
That's ridiculous to say that the cupboard wasn't bare when Gene got here when he can come in and cut/waive 10-15+ players over the next year and the majority of them not sign onto another team whatsoever.
That, sir is ridiculous….I mean did ANY of the starting WRs sign somewhere else? Even Underwood got picked up by the Patriots…..say what you like, the cupboard was bare as hell and the team was getting/had gotten old fast.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Northcutt played for the Lions for a while
Matt Jones played for the Bengals for like… 2 days of training camp.
LOL...exactly.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
No late round hits?
Rashad Jennings doesn’t count? Austen Lane and Jarrett Dillard aren’t exactly busts either.
The general rule of thumb is to wait three yeras to evaluate a draft class
at the end of the season we can take a proper look back at his first draft class. To label any of his other drafts picks at this point is just silly.
Respect My Authoritah
Dillard
is good in his role.
Anyone interested in making money easy and quick on the interne, let me know through twitter or facebook(preferably facebook).
"thanks for hating"
"Give it up now before its too late!…. CJ will be shut down? Nevermind, its already too late." AZ TiTan10
by rhettchrystal on Dec 21, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
lane was borderline serviceable in the starting line-up in 10.
but people seem to ignore alualu. i like him. he is not a top caliber guy though. i really wish he was and i know he is hurt but he cant be hurting that bad considering the way the jags are throwing guys on IR for 3-4week injuries.
Lane is a good RDE on run downs.
Holds the point and has a motor. For a 5th round pick. Dillard has had injuries and some polish. But a 5th round pick again you are splitting hairs.
Dillard is a pretty good possession WR. It sounds like you don't like him (like I didn't like MSW) *Controversy?* LOL
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
They aren't superstars
but they aren’t busts either. They’re late round guys that have stuck around on the roster and have a role.
Monroe...
isn’t a Top 10 tackle? GTFO of here with that. Go back and look at that draft and tell me who was a Top 10 tackle if he wasn’t. Derek Cox is only average? Yeah right. The man was playing really well before he got injured, so if he’s only average to you, then your expectations for a player are unrealistic. And to say Mike Thomas was average his first two season is false also. 66 receptions for 820 yards, a 12.4 average and 4 TD’s his second season should be considered more than average. Yeah it’d be nice if he had more TD’s but Lewis (10) and MSW (7) were the redzone targets so they got most of the touchdowns that year.
“Hart was even a 5th rounder!” What’s your point in saying that? It’s not like every draft pick is going to pan out. Look around the league and you’ll see that players from each round are let go every year. Taylor Price, who was a Bill Belichick draft pick, was released this season after being a 3rd round pick the year before. To make it even worse, he was replaced by Tiquan Underwood, a 7th round pick of Gene Smith.
What makes you think Gene HAD to sign any free agents this past offseason? Truth be told, he didn’t HAVE to do anything. He did what he thought was in the best interest of the team and it worked out as can be proved by our currently 4th ranked defense.
The last thing I’m going to touch on is the receiver situation. Gene hasn’t had the chance to spend early round draft picks on the skill positions yet but it’s obvious we’re getting to the point where he’ll be able to. He had to focus on rebuilding both lines and has done a fair job of doing that. At the end of the day, as T.Holmes said above, the only thing that matters is has he made the team better. He has in his first three years and unless Blaine doesn’t turn out to be our “Franchise QB”, I have no problem with Gene being our General Manager. He has the respect of his professional peers which is worth much more than anything we can think of him.
1. So Monroe only has to be better than his draft class peers? That crop of tackles
2. Cox was inconsistent last year and his rookie year. I did not say he was bad this year I said he was average. You cannot tell me he was a great cornerback.
3. Where’s Thomas been this year?
4. Um… did you watch our defense play in ’10? Gene had to go on a spree in FA to make things work. And he did a great job there, not disputing that.
I admit I’m being overly critical but I’m trying to think like the new owner of an NFL team who wants to win and knows the fans want it too. Why should we be content with Gene Smith if he could be holding this team back?
My vote is wait to see what happens with Gabbert and the team next year.
1) No he doesn’t, but to say he isn’t a Top 10 tackle is false either way you look at it. He was worth his pick.
2) No one said he was great but he was playing really good football this year. Not only that but I don’t think he has reached his ceiling, so if he continues to get better, then his pick was warranted also.
3) Between his own laziness and Blaine’s poor play, he hasn’t been producing the way he could’ve been. I’ll give that one to you, he’s been a slacker and has no one to blame for himself. I really hope that big payday he got isn’t the reason for it.
4) Of course I seen the horrible play of the ‘10 defense. That still doesn’t mean he HAD to go spend the way he did. Although I will say in a way he did have to do something with the way the ’10 defense played.
I don’t think Gene is holding the team back. He’s made the team better in many ways and as I said, if Blaine doesn’t turn out to our “Franchise QB” then he should be fired.
2
You said “average at best” , not that he is average. To me, that means that you think his best games were only average. If you mean that his body of work is average at best, I don’t disagree.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!
by DownTownJax on Dec 22, 2011 4:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
sorry
meant to finish: that crop of tackles has been noted for being disappointing.
no Monroe doesn't only have to be better than the Tackles taken in his year
but he is playing extremely well this year, better than just average.
Respect My Authoritah
No GM in the history of the NFL has drafted all 22 starters in three drafts
To say he only went out and got five free agent starters on defense because he had to is to dismiss out of hand a huge part of his responsibilities. Anyone who thinks Gene is a failure because he hasn’t drafted Pro Bowlers in three drafts does not have a realistic perspective of how things work in the NFL.
Section 442, RIP
"You think you know, but you don't know."
by unhipcat on Dec 21, 2011 7:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The problem is, he had to go replace guys like Don Carey and Courtney Greene, who he FORCED into the line up.
Well you don't get to get a real good evalution when their on the bench
Respect My Authoritah
They should have had the evaluation when they were awful in camp/practice/preseason.
The safeties were in such bad shape last year because Gene Smith made them that way by forcing his guys in there.
and that same song played this year with the
wr corps. he knew the talent level and decided to stick with jason hill at #1. thats on him. last year he admitted the mistake (not publicly) by getting landry and paying him good money. lets see if he can snatch us a few recievers in free agency and the draft. wat do you think about prosinski’s play this year?
Prosinski
has been a bit of a letdown for me. He looks like he did in college. I was hoping he would look better in a slightly different role and with better coaches and players around him. But he still has the same problems he did in college. He can still improve, but we’ll see.
He didn't make the safties bad.
They were bad before he took over. From the ‘07 season, here’s the safties that we have had.
2007:
FS Jamaal Fudge
SS Sammy Knight
FS Reggie Nelson (Rookie)
SS Chad Nkang (Rookie)
S Lamont Thompson
2008:
SS Calvin Lowery
FS Reggie Nelson
FS Pierson Prioleau
SS Gerald Sensabaugh
SS Chad Nkang
Then Gene took over and from then it’s looked like this.
2009:
SS Gerald Sensabaugh
SS Sean Considine
SS Courtney Greene
FS Reggie Nelson
FS Anthony Smith
2010:
FS Tyron Brackenridge
FS Sean Considine
SS Courtney Greene
FS Michael Hamlin
FS Don Carey
I’d say from what he inherited to what he transformed the group into over those two years, he did what he could. While the group wasn’t good by any means, they were much worse before he became GM.
so...
are you on the fire gene smith bandwagon alfie?
by Kyle Lipsey on Dec 22, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
So now that they're better,
are those guys Gene Smith guys? He couldn’t find a good pair of safeties for a couple years in the draft and had to sign them in free agency. That’s still part of his job, and I think he’s done well. It’s not like we’re still forcing Don Juan down everyone’s throats. He didnt’ play well and now he’s gone.
oh yes because it's impossible for young players to get better
Respect My Authoritah
I do not understand
how people on this bash a GM for not hitting on 5th round and beyond picks. You understand that they rarely pan out right? smh.
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Dec 21, 2011 9:47 PM EST reply actions
I still say the second thing Khan needs to do is hire a Team President
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I still am of the strong belief
that cox will be a number 1 corner, he was pretty damn good this year and his rookie year. last year was hurt. dude came out of william and mary, big jump to the pros and hasnt really been overwhelmed i like him and ive seen why gene picked rackley but not why he traded for him if that makes any sense,
I disagree
With a couple things you’ve said.
One, Aaron Kampmann was a good signing. He was relatively cheap coming off his first ACL tear. He showed us before the second injury that he would be a very good stop gap for 2-3 years until some other DE either draft or previous player came along and started racking up sacks. I have no doubt, that before a second ACL injury, AK74 was a very good pick up. Can’t fault Gene for AK’s second injury which essentially made him useless this year and possibly ended his career. He wasn’t that old and prior to the one ACL tear he didn’t have a ‘history’ of injuries.
Two, Derek Cox at times looked better than Mathis out there. I’d say early on maybe he wasn’t worth the move, but it seems like he is going to be very good for a long time if he stays healthy.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head with everything else, late round picks haven’t amounted to much if anything. And early round picks have been base hits and no home runs. Alualu was a double, Knighton a triple, Monroe a base hit Gabbert is looking like a bunt. Thomas was a mid rounder and has performed like it. Probably will be great with other guys around him. Dillard when healthy has looked promising, but can he stay healthy and stick around… I dunno.
I think Khan has the flexability to clean house first year or run a transition season with Tucker and Gene and clean house next year….
I don’t really care what he does, as long as next year looks better than this year….
Ok then you be the GM if your so smart.
Monroe is a starting LT in the league. Gene built a top 5 Defense in the league and now needs to add offensive pieces. He will. We have 30 million in the Cap. We could add Dwayne Bowe and Grubbs in FA and then Claiborne and Dwight Jones in the draft. We are very close to being very good.
SCALP'EM
Jesus is Lord!
by Thunder64 on Dec 22, 2011 11:16 AM EST via mobile reply actions
GM has been dissapointing
Gene Smith has been in the organization for 16 years. His contract extension by Mr. Weaver, just before selling the team was a reward for his loyalty, certainly not his performance. When a team is sold, one would think, the old owner would allow the new owner to decide who to keep and who to fire…For many reasons it would be wise for Mr. Khan to clean house and start with a new GM and new coach. Gene Smith has been dissapointing as GM. He has not drafted a single playmaker on either side of the ball in three years…he’s hit some singles (as he said), but they have been at too steep a price. It would be best for the Jaguars if Mr. Khan would fire him, and start with his own team.
How can you be so sure of what Gene's extension was for
Sorry, but I have a hard time believing Gene Smith would have been offered an extension if Shad Khan not only agreed to it, but also believes in what Gene is doing.
Respect My Authoritah
Khan didn't own the team yet, Weaver could do whatever he wanted; now Khan can do whatever he wants.
I realize Khan doesn't own the team yet
but offering an extension to one of the most important guys in the franchise right before the sale will be finalized does not seem like the kind of backhanded thing that WW would do. This isn’t Wall Street.
Respect My Authoritah
by duuuvaaalll on Dec 22, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
The truth of the matter is Gene’s future is tied to Blaine Gabbert. I don’t think Khan will have patience for Gene Smith if the QB and this team fail to develop in 2012.
I hope Gene doesn't like to fish
You don’t mess with the Khanfather.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
If you ain't first, you're last.
Question: How many “stars” has Gene made for the program? I can’t think of any. He has brought in some good players, sure, but none of those can be called a “star”. He has been very hit or miss for a team plagued with injuries. Lets cut the ties to the Weaver era and begin anew.
by Catfanatic1979v1 on Dec 23, 2011 7:50 PM EST reply actions
That's the big complaint right now.
2012 needs to feature stars. Maybe not from the ‘12 draft class (could be a FA or a developing player from a previous draft), but somebody needs to pop and I really hope it’s Gabbert.
How many "stars"...
have been drafted in the last three years altogether? Then see how many of those players Gene had a shot at drafting and then ask that question.
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