Defensive players that need to be re-signed this off-season
by T.Holmes on Dec 28, 2011 5:05 PM EST
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PrintAs many of my fellow Jaguar family members out there are probably aware of there will likely be much (and by much I mean an a freakin lot) of offensive turn-over and uncertainty going into the off-season for the Jacksonville Jaguars offense. Being pretty much last in any measurable offensive category not including MJD will do that for you. We all know what the Jaguars offensive story this offseason will be: O-line merry-go-round must be fixed, WR core dismantling (about time), non-existent TE play, and a rookie QB who had to improve these last few weeks just to LOOK like a rookie must improve. But earlier today on jaguars.com's O-zone I read that we're set to be potentially losing a few guys on our #4 ranked defense.
As it stands Jeremy Mincey, Matt Roth, Dwight Lowery, William Middleton, and Rashean Mathis are all set to be free agents as of the finale of this post season.
I personally believe that resigning Mincey is a top priority (not to say he's defensive player of the year but the kid can play and has a Everlast motor). I also believe that resigning Lowery and Middleton would be pretty important to our defense, though they both may not show up every play they definitely do their job well... Mathis is basically gonna come down to his asking price and what he looks like in his rehabbing and workouts.
I think this is the order our new coaching staff should pursue:
1) Mincey
2) Roth (seeing as Kampman may be gone and even if he is here we'll still need d-line depth)
3) Middleton (quality corner, depth, and Mathis may be gone)
4) Lowery (No safety depth whatsoever, Chris Prosinski isn't ready for a starting role yet anyways)
5) Possibly Mathis, if at all
Anyone disagree or don't agree with re-signing one of them (I know Mincey's a slam dunk, pretty much)?
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I would go Mincey, Lowery, Middleton, and then Roth. I like Roth, but he may request a lot of money because I believe he was last offseason and that’s why no one signed him. He will be good to resign if we can get him at moderate price, but I would like to see us go after a big name DE this offseason with a big name WR. If we can have another consistent DE with Mincey and Chick, then we could be even better. Thats why I have Roth lower. there are some good DEs in FA.
Pretty sure we'll be going after everyone breathing at WR in FA this year (seeing as so many will be available)
Not sure who all will be available at DE yet
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Most of the really good WR's
will more than likely be re-signed by their current teams. Happens every year at every position.
I believe this year will be different
If you look at the guys, four or five of them play in heavy passing offenses. I don’t think the Saints can sign both Meachem and Colston and the Colts won’t resign Garcon and Wayne. Include other guys like V Jax, Bowe and Desean Jackson who will probably test the market, and there will be plenty of guys. Remember, V Jax wanted to get the hell out of San Diego and Desean Jackson is having issues in Philadelphia.
I would like to resign all the guys you mentioned.
As long as Mathis is healthy. Lowery and Mincey are my top 2 guys, like Dwalk.
Fidelis Ad Mortem
One concern with Roth is his concussion. It was severe enough to keep him sidelined for nearly half the season.
I honestly feel Mathis will be back on a cheap deal.
I thought Roth was out a few times due to other issues? So it was always the concusion?
For some reason I feel like I remember him practicing and then being back on the injury report for something else…..so, the concusion kept him out 5 games….that definitely adds some pretty big risk Javid Best type risk
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
We need Mathis back!! Need.
I know people like to pick on him but he’s our best corner and has been since Fernando Bryant left many moons ago.
Perfect world
Aaron Kampman gets cut, passes waivers and takes an incentive laden low salary deal to stay.
Sadly, though, I think Kampman is done.
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Why waste any more time/roster spot/money on Kampman…..let him go.
by orecic76 on Dec 28, 2011 7:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know it's in vogue...
…and the all knowing Vic said it all the time, that players are pros and don’t need rah rah guys; and that may be true to a certain extent. But really good individuals, pros pros, locker room guys are a benefit i believe. Media says it means nothing but players are often saying otherwise.
I heard an interview today from Drew Brees where he was going on and on about how LT made him a better pro, and he feels that LT’s presence in the locker room made a difference and made him better personally.
Kampman appears to be a leader. If Joe Fisher’s scenario above happens then I’d be all for it. Hell, we carried some trash on this roster and likely will do so in all future years. If he’s cheap I think he can be a benefit in the locker room. We’re a young team and leaders, regardless of what Vic says, are an asset
by JohnnyBiceps on Dec 28, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
no it's not
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IRed guys aren’t a presence in the locker room. They’re like outcasts on the team. They’re not in practice or in most of the meetings.
Honestly, what has Kampman’s presence done that would make him worth taking up a roster spot? He’s a leader, how? Where’s it showing?
I totally agree with you in that regard
But, it’s pretty likely he’s getting released before he gets his roster bonus. Say there is no interest from other teams and he agrees to a vet minimum deal. If he can hack it in camp, then what’s the harm? As for taking up a roster spot, there are 80 then they drop down. If he’s in the tub more than on the field, the decision is a lot easier to swallow than when he is due the $6M or whatever number it is.
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We have short memories as fans
This year he was pretty useless. The year before, he was a significant asset. It;s unlikely he will be a significant asset again, however, he still may be an asset. Dude is a pro. If we get him cheap and he’s healthy enough to rotate, he has value. No one is saying pay him 10 mil.
by JohnnyBiceps on Dec 28, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
for what he's been paid thus far, it has not been worth it
in effect 8 games in 2 years is what we’ve gotten out of him.
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I don't disagree
Nor, like John Oehser, do I dislike the usage of double negatives
by JohnnyBiceps on Dec 28, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
How was he a significant asset? He played for half the season.
You can throw out the cliches about being a leader and a pro all day, but how real is it? Where is it tangible? Where’s it showing?
He doesn’t have value as a rotation player. He’s a liability on the field now, not to mention a potential easy injury. You’re hanging on just to hang on.
Fun w/Devil's Advocate
Perhaps he was significant for half a season. Is that tangible? Of course that’s not tangible. Can you show tangible proof that he wasn’t an asset? That he was an outcast in the locker room? That he didn’t have value as a rotational player? That he was a liability on the field? I say he was good, with was being the key. And, no, it’s not a personal attack (awww) but since you sound like you’re being overly negative towards AK, then I will speak my medicated mind.
Sean
Pax Armis Acquiritur
Chance he is back on a cheap deal?
Invite to TC and see if he still can go. Or is it a straight cut of Kampman?
you mad holmes?
He wasn’t an asset in 09? He was the only thing we had that resembled a defense prior to getting hurt. Then he was all over the media acting as an ambassador and voice of reason for a team starving for one.
As for positive influence in the locker room, he took Austen Lane under his wing during the lockout and worked with him to try and give the kid an off season. That’s just off the top of my head. He’s shown nothing but class, call it a cliche but it is what it is.
If he’s signed back on the cheap, the things he brings to this team are more than some UDFA who spent three years on the Browns’ practice squad.
If he gets hurt he can be waived, no big. That UFDA from the Browns’ practice squad ain’t going no where. Snap bro, you act like he peed in your Wheaties.
by JohnnyBiceps on Dec 29, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I’m absolutely mad. I’m glad you were able to pick that up?
He was an asset in 2009, for 8 games. The “ambassador and voice of reason” is completely meaningless. It does nothing.
Sure, he took Austen Lane under his wing and worked with him. Did it show up on the field? Nope. So, how much help was it? Austen Lane was still just a set the edge guy on the defensive line, just like he was the season prior.
What does he bring to the team that UDFA’s can’t? The feel good story of talking about how classy he is and a good guy in the locker room? Sure, you can waive him if he’s injured… but you’re still on the hook for his salary because he’s a vested veteran. Then you have to find a guy off the street to fill a roster spot.
Step away from the cliches. Cliches don’t produce on the field.
Tania concurs
@taniaganguli Players on IR are doing their year-end physicals & meetings today. Seeing a lot of faces around the facility I haven’t in a while. #Jaguars
And there we have it. Momma Tania has your back Alfie! Lol
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Hopefully we resign Mincey (not to a huge deal, he does not deserve it…yet), sign Mathis if he can be had cheaply (sucks for him, but because of that ACL he most likely wont get a huge deal anywhere), Lowery is an easy signing, I like Middleton, hopefully we can retain him. Roth is interesting, because like Alfie said, he is coming off of a concussion that sidelined him for the last 5 weeks of the season. Roth is not one to shy away from contact either. So we may not retain him.
Why’s Lowery an easy signing? If he’s played as well as people say and proven himself to be a starter, he shouldn’t be an easy signing.
This is another question I have though
how good HAS Lowery played? Like, I love the guy and he’s a solid player for us for sure…it’s just that when looking at profootballfocus over the past few weeks I always remember him either being just average in grading or below average in coverage. I believe my eyes telling me that he’s done well enough not to be mentioned on the other end of huge catches…but I have to wonder has he been “excellent” or just “good enough”?
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Lowery is a complementary player
When we were at full strength, or rather when Mathis was in, the secondary looked good.
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He’s been OK, in my opinion. The safety position just looks so much better because guys aren’t blowing coverages left and right and Landry has guys lined up correctly. Lowery has still blown some coverages, it’s just not 2-3 times a game like last season.
I like Lowery.
There are no stars on this teams defense but they all complement each other. It is important to keep this group together.
I would resign all of the except Mathis. Mathis is a maybe for me. Who knows what another year and a knee injury can spell. If he wants to come back cheap then go ahead but I wouldn’t reserve his starting spot for him.
by Catfanatic1979v1 on Dec 28, 2011 7:57 PM EST reply actions
Russell Allen also will be a FA
And I think he deserves to get re-signed
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by Zoltan from Budapest on Dec 28, 2011 8:34 PM EST reply actions
I agree with you Zoltan...just not even moderately sure what the heck he would ask for....
I believe he likely gets re-signed…just don’t know how he sees himself, if you know what I mean…
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Give him a decent backup deal for 2 or 3 years. He is productive
A real big UDFA gem.
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by Zoltan from Budapest on Dec 28, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
if folks hammer Gene for the late round draft flops, then they must give him credit for the UDFAs who perform
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by Joe Fisher on Dec 28, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"Viva los Zapatistas y la Revolucion"
by montanajagsfan on Dec 28, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
Yep. Thanks
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by Zoltan from Budapest on Dec 28, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Meh on Russell Allen.
I think he’s a career backup. If he wants anything more than that, I’m fine to let him walk.
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by Brian Levenson on Dec 29, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
I got a list here's the order of my list that it's in
It goes: Mincey, Lowery, Middleton,Mathis. I wouldn’t re-sign Roth.
Wouldn't even contemplate r-signing Roth? Without first seeing what he's like next year and testing him? It's not like he has a history of concussions, does he?
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
The league is so tough on concussions now (Legally have to be)
That I’d be fearful of him getting another concussion next year and missing just as much time as he has this year.
He performed well, just not encouraged by the amount of time he’s missed this year.
Nice article by the way there, Travis.
Thanks man.
Also, do you think the fact that we’re not in the running for anything have something to do with him not wanting to rush back? (just playing both sides of the fence and wondering if we were fighting for a division championship or a playoff berth right now if he would have been rushed back or said he was okay to play)…valid question…
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
No I don't think he'd be playing
If that were the case then MoJo wouldn’t have kept playing after he rolled up his ankle, because he had nothing to play for.
Look at Sydney Crosby, he has plenty to play for and was already out for an extended period of time. Now they expect him to miss another undetermined amout of time or he could possibly be done for good.
We just don’t know enough about concussions and teams are gonna be cautious with players in order to avoid future lawsuits.
I got you. Thanks for the good convo Your Jagrificness
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
If we resign everyone that's going to be a FA
and not make changes then we will have the same result as this year
Reffering to the people saying resign everyone plus we need russel allen and kampman and all this stuff….yall are reading to much into it
No need for kampman on this team what so ever
by amujic32 on Dec 28, 2011 9:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I frankly have no problems with our defense having the same results of this year
minus the injuries in the secondary…pretty sure that I can name 28 other nfl teams who would LOVE to have the results of our Jaguars defense from this year lol… (#4 in the league before losing our starting AND backup corners and starting safety and linebacker)
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
I didn't mean the defense in particular
I ment as a whole
Because I dont want to be 4-12 or 5-11 again
Of course the d is amazing but we lack a DE that demands constant pressure
They worked hard to fix the D in the offseason
I expect the same for the O
by amujic32 on Dec 28, 2011 10:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
+1
maybe a DE to replace AK, but that’s it
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
I say
1a. Mincey
1b. Lowey
then rest.
Anyone interested in making money easy and quick on the interne, let me know through twitter or facebook(preferably facebook).
"thanks for hating"
"Give it up now before its too late!…. CJ will be shut down? Nevermind, its already too late." AZ TiTan10
1. Mincey
2. Lowery
3. Middleton
4. Roth
5. Russell Allen
Rashean’s jersey was the very first Jaguars jersey I ever got, but its time.
My question is who should we sign in FA for defense that’s not on our team?
"Viva los Zapatistas y la Revolucion"
by montanajagsfan on Dec 29, 2011 12:32 AM EST reply actions
If he comes back cheap
Mathis that is, then I’m all for it.
I always though we let go of Brian Williams too soon, I’d be comfortable with a 2 year deal for ’Sheen.
Glad I’m not the only one who thought BWill was an asset. He took a ton of crap, but he was a solid No. 2.
B Will
was horrible. And that was especially true of him playing Safety. He was always close enough to the ball to watch it get caught. He seriously almost never made a play on the ball. And his tackling was overrated. Will Middleton is a better B Will.
Mosely's OK I guess...just another body though....SLIGHT depth I guess....easily replaceable...
He was on a one year contract…I’d be fine with putting him on another one year contract and seeing if he can improve before offering anything more…and if he goes, so be it.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
How about the players that should be developing?
Everyone wants to kick the tires on AK again this offseason and resign Roth. I think with Mincey and Chick and Lane if we draft a DE or get one in FA (even a tier two DE) I think we could let both those guys walk. We have young players drafted the past couple drafts that should be in years 2 and 3 ready to make a significant contribution.
Lowery I’d like to resign but again, young players in the secondary. Greene, Pros etc. If Lowery needs to walk or is asking for too much you could add a cheap FA plus the young guys we have.
I think Mincey should be resigned and seems like the kind of guy that would stick around to be a part of this team. The Jags don’t shine too often so he may get some offers but I dont expect any team will be looking to throw the bank at Mincey this year.
Middleton and Mathis are CBs that I’d be OK with resigning, I’d be OK if they walk. These guys have to be the right price or they could be replaced easily.
Thing is the draft will likely play a big role in who gets resigned but almost any FA on Offense is sure to be walking… anyone know of sure fire keepers that must be resigned on O?
FA happens before the draft like normal this year
so the draft won’t have anything to do with resigning certain players.
oih dang...
in that case i’d say you can let all those guys walk if they want too much money. none of them are elite top 5 at their position. so resign them on the cheap (not too cheap for guys like lowery and mincey but not too spendy) and draft and replace. I’d like 1 FA WR and maybe 1 FA DE and 1 FA QB (let McCown go)
by Kyle Lipsey on Dec 29, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds like you're talking some serious turnover for a defense that was as good as they were pre-injuries....
While I agree with kicking AK to the curb I’m not 100% on letting Roth go just yet…the guy definitely produced (while Lane was very up and down…mainly still here on potential). I still think Roth, like Lowery is a complementary player (like many players on this Jags team). Seeing as we don’t have much depth anyways I think you’d have to at least think on resigning him (Roth)…dependent on his concussion tests post-season/pre-contract. You can’t release him with the thought that someone else SHOULD produce; that’s one hell of an unnecessary risk.
Greene is point blank a liability in coverage and Pros is NOT ready to be a starting safety yet. Anyone watching his missed tackles in open field will tell you that. Our secondary this year was built on two things: playing tight coverage and limiting the YAC. You can’t miss tackles or whiff on them often and be “ready for a starting role”. I just don’t see it.
I absolutely 110% disagree with letting both Middleton and Mathis walk…there’s no way that happens. Middleton proved his worth playing man to man defense when Cox was injured earlier in the season and again when Mathis went down. No way he doesn’t get resigned. If Mathis is physically ready and will accept a moderately minimal contract he’ll be back and at a value for sure.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
but
I was taking into account that Chick came on real strong and Mincey and Chick plus Lane and a drafted or FA DE could allow us to let Roth go, especially since he may want big bucks or may want to go to the 3-4 scheme.
I’m not exactly saying we shouldn’t sign these guys. But I would think we shouldn’t over pay any of them. Mathis if on the cheap could move to safety with Landry if Lowery was gone. If we draft Claiborne, Kirkpatrick, we could be better off. Plus with Middleton there or a FA like Finnegan, we wouldn’t miss a beat or we’d be better, imo.
I think Mel Tucker’s simplification along with effort and improvement on our Dline is what secured us as a top D team. I wouldn’t want to bank on Greene or Pros, but I would hope by next season they are able to fill in in a pinch if needed.
All I’m saying is, with the rookie wage scale and new FA rules and stuff, plus the new coaching staff anyway, we shouldn’t limit ourselves to the guys we already have. We should try to piece together an even better D, imo, if possible. Along with fixing serious problem areas on Offense. This team has plenty of cap room to work FA again and plenty of draft picks in high position in each round to draft immediate talent or move around and draft a lot of guys.
I’m all for signing new guys and building on what we have but some of these guys must be resigned b/c they help from the core of our D (Middleton, Mathis, Lowery, Roth). At a minimum two of those have to be resigned, plus adding two-three other ppl in those positions for depth (which we’re lacking in the secondary specifically).
And while you’re right in the thought that Roth may want bigger bucks Roth definitely hated the 3-4 scheme with Miami and Cleveland…pass coverage was a true weakness of his. Now he doesn’t have to worry about it.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Roth is a relatively young, low-risk guy.
He got his shot with the Jags this year and was effective enough to be in the rotation…
Yeah there’s injury concerns, but why not resign him?
Unless they get someone who can be an every down guy with decent pass rush skills from the LE position (which he did in 2011), might as well keep Roth.
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by Brian Levenson on Dec 29, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
low risk?
Dude has missed significant time with concussions. He’s probably 1 away from retirement. As he just became a father, he may want to think long and hard about quality of life.
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I say Lowery must be signed.
Lowery and Landry have been the best safety combination we’ve had since DD and Deon Grant. When there’s a solid corner on each side of the field, the back end is almost locked down completely. We need draft picks used elsewhere in other positions…mmmm… like offense. :)
+10000000
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
FA
Mincey, Lowery, Mathis, Roth, Meachem, Garcon, and a good DE
Draft- Claiborne, Kendall Wright, The best OT left, Ty hilton, Vlachos, Eric Page (university of Toledo WR) and then Maybe even Devier Posey in the last or in UDFA’s (our WR’s are worse then most good college teams and we need upgrades across the board, and yes that includes mike thomas)
sign them all
Khan has money so resign them all and release them later if you need to.
That was dumb
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
SIGN , SIGN , SIGN
SIGN Mincey , Lowery , Middleton and Mathis on a cheap deal ……we let Roth walk . We sign Mario Williams , Robert Meachem and Garcon in free agency …..add Claiborne and some others in the draft and just like that ……Our JAGS are back in buisness ….. JAGS AFC SOUTH CHAMPIONS in 2012 !!!
L F J
If we sign Garson and Meachem we still have no #1 WR
Having 3 number twos does little when none of them have proven themselves without a legitimate #1 that pulls the coverage their way (Wayne in Garson’s case and Coltson in Meachem’s case). I’d at least humor the ppl wanting to go after Vincent Jackson or D-Jax because at least they’re legitimate #1 WRs. The option you proposed still puts us at least one WR left to be desired….
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
If it were me
I would sign V-Jax and Jerome Simpson and then draft an Alshon Jeffery. And I would keep Dillard and Thomas and then have a battle for the last spot. I might keep Cloherty over Osgood being that he was cheaper, younger, and more productive on offense as well as being pretty darn good on special teams. Probably excited just being on the roster.
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