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Jaguars Targeting J.J. Watt and Cameron Jordan?

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According to Tony Pauline, the man who oh-so subtle dropped Tyson Alualu for the Jacksonville Jaguars the week before the 2010 NFL Draft dropped an interesting nugget for the Jacksonville Jaguars again. Pauline states that the Jaguars would like to look for a "bigger" defensive end and will be targeting players like J.J. Watt of Wisconsin and Cameron Jordan of California.

The next key spot is Miami at 15 because Miami picks right ahead of Jacksonville and Miami is in desperate need of a quarterback. Either Miami reaches for a quarterback, takes Mark Ingram, or trades down to a team that wants to jump ahead of Jacksonville and take a defensive lineman because they think Jacksonville is gonna take a defensive lineman. They want a big defensive end. That's what I'm hearing; J.J. Watt or Cameron Jordan, if he slides

The above is what Tony Pauline had to say about the 15th and 16th overall pick in the draft when discussing a mock draft with former Jaguars and now Green Bay Packers writer Vic Ketchman.

Star-divide

The most interesting thing to me about those names are the fact that both players are ideal fits for a 3-4 defensive front. We've had the to 3-4 or not to 3-4 discussion quite a bit here on Big Cat Country, but I wanted to run through it one last time. While both Watt and Jordan could play in a 4-3 at the strong side end position, they're best fit is at the defensive end position in a 3-4, coincidentally where Jordan played his entire college career.

We have many discussions that the Jaguars don't have the personnel to make the dive into full 3-4 defensive switch. I'll agree somewhat, but I don't believe their transition is going to be a full swan dive. The Jaguars, I believe, are slowly building into the transition, and it began in Gene Smith's first draft. Just look at the players he's drafted and signed in undrafted free agency, and you'll get your clues.

Smith pulled defensive tackle Terrance Knighton in the third round of the 2009 draft. Knighton works well as a 4-3 tackle, but he also excels at the 3-4 nose tackle position which is typically the cornerstone of any 3-4. In 2009 as undrafted free agents, the Jaguars signed Jeremy Navarre and Julius Williams. Navarre was a fit at 3-4 end in 2009 when the Jaguars played the defensive front for 8 games. Williams was viewed as an ideal fit for a 3-4 outside linebacker coming out, and often compared to Pittsburgh Steelers James Harrison, as far as his skill set. Linebacker Russell Allen was also signed, who many feel would fit in well as an inside linebacker in a 3-4 defense.

In the 2010 NFL Draft, Gene Smith went heavy on the defensive side of the ball. He drafted Tyson Alualu, who played 3-4 defensive end primarily at California, and also came back in the third round to take D'Anthony Smith. Smith was viewed as a pass rushing 4-3 under tackle or a possible fit as a 3-4 end. Smith picked up Larry Hart in the fifth round, whom many viewed as a 3-4 outside linebacker candidate. He also picked up defensive end Austen Lane, who was worked out by many a 3-4 team as an outside linebacker/down end player prior to the draft.

As undrafted free agents in 2010, Gene Smith brought in linebacker Kyle Bosworth, Aaron Morgan, and Jacob Cutrera. All three could fit in a 3-4, and Aaron Morgan is actually the picture of what teams look for in 3-4 outside linebacker prospects. Smith also snapped up Nate Collins mid-season, who quite a few of 3-4 football teams loved prior to the 2010 draft and played nosetackle in a 3-4 at Virginia.

I don't think in 2011 the Jacksonville Jaguars will run a 3-4 defense, but I strongly believe we will see some 3-4 fronts and looks. I feel that the Jaguars are building towards this transition, to make the full switch with a possible coaching change after the 2011 season. If the Jacksonville Jaguars draft either Watt or Jordan, it will only hammer home that feeling for me, as their potential starting defensive line in a 3-4 look would be young and incredibly talented.

If you want to exclaim they don't have the players for a 3-4 defense, I'll simply just state they don't have the players for a 4-3 defense, either. Many will cite that the Jaguars don't have the linebackers for a 3-4 defense, particularly the pass rushing linebackers, but Hart and Morgan would move to those positions as well as potential free agents or draft picks. The Jaguars linebacking core, as we knew it, was pretty much blown up. Daryl Smith is really the lone survivor and he fits in either defense.

Now, is it easy to poke holes in every point I've made? Abso-friggin-lutely. I'm just connecting dots here, along with some things I've heard.

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Sorry, but I just don’t see us grabbing ponder in the first.

by KillJag on Mar 25, 2011 4:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

i see it real clear because

when you find someone that could be a franchise guy then you grab him at all cost. Stop trying to make guys like rick stanzi, and greg mcelroy your franchise qb’s when they’re suited for back ups. We as a fanbase are already paying for our bad judgement by assuming David Garrard is our guy as he had as much talent as the two i mention coming out in his draft. Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, and Joe Montana are the exceptions not the rule.

by leopold332002 on Mar 25, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

he’s from the state of florida

by asharp12587 on Mar 25, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

first off

he’s intelligent and can read defenses very well. Very accurate in the short to intermediate passes. He also can from a pro-style offense and most importantly, he has a above average arm and can make all the throws. His stock is rising and i hope for the sake of the franchise we get someone like him early. Personally, i don’t care where he is from as long as he can be an upgrade from Garrard.

by leopold332002 on Mar 25, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure

if he can make all the throws. At least not with the velocity that either Locker, Mallett, Kaepernick, or even Garrard can.

by Ewdtrey on Mar 26, 2011 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don't have to have those guys' velocity to make "all the throws"

Ponder has enough arm to make all the throws. I really don’t see why there’s a huge difference between Ponder and Bradford or Matt Ryan, honestly.

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by CaliforniaJag on Mar 27, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

pick is certainly growing on me

he was thought of to be a first round lock before this past season. plus he has shown in workouts he is the same qb of a year ago, so why not take him in the first to be the frnachise QB?!!

by Jagsrok9008 on Mar 25, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

THANK YOU TONY !!!

cam jordan baby im tellin u hes ours..i wouldnt mind Watt as our alternate pick if jordan is gone, but NOW were talkin baby this is our pick

by FgallosJAGS on Mar 25, 2011 5:02 PM EDT reply actions  

oh by the way

defensive end in this year’s draft are very deep so therefore if we don’t get one in the first round it’s not the end of the world folks.

by leopold332002 on Mar 25, 2011 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't dislike Watt

But I really like Jordan. I’d be more than happy with him at 16.

If hip hop is dead, then it happened the day that Dilla died.
-Akrobatik

by Bestjagfan on Mar 25, 2011 5:26 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

Warming to Watt. Rapt to get Jordan. Happy to hear they’re on our radar.

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 26, 2011 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

If we're playing a 3-4 I REALLY like Watt

I like him in a 4-3 as well as a LDE. I’d be pretty happy with either Watt or Jordan at 16.

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by CaliforniaJag on Mar 25, 2011 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

NICE

If other teams start getting into a quarterback frenzy, we could get a great defensive player at 16.

Personally, I don’t care if we play 3-4 or 4-3. I care that our defense starts winning football games. Use whatever scheme you want, just win baby.

by Vicbow on Mar 25, 2011 6:22 PM EDT reply actions  

I like them....BUT!

I think we need a DE that is a natural 4-3 end. I don’t want players who will have to adjust or they think they will be good at either formation..(hybrid)..thats what got the jags HARVEY….he should have been in a 3-4 like every scout saw him….but we took him and put him in a 4-3…just like Kampman he knew he was not as good in a 3-4 as he is in a 4-3. I will take a proven 4-3 DE Kerrigan…..he’s strong he is proven and he has excelled against top O-lineman.

by 100%real on Mar 25, 2011 6:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Watt played 4-3 DE in college

The 3-4 would be an adjustment for him, not the 4-3.

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by CaliforniaJag on Mar 25, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

So did Harvey...LOL...I'm going to leave him alone

It is some guys who play in the 4-3 that are not going against NFL caliber O-lineman. That speed and bull rush dont work as well in the NFL…..guys on the O-line are stronger and faster…thats what i mean when you can look at some of these 4-3 DE in college that cant play with there hand on the ground in the NFL that speed is better as 3-4.

by 100%real on Mar 25, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watt had quicker 10-yard splits than some notable "classic" 4-3 DE prospects

They’re both guys that can play LDE in a 4-3. They won’t be expected to be 15 sack players, but I don’t see any reason either of those two couldn’t be an 8 sack per year player at some point.

I have no idea what you’re talking about with Harvey…I can’t think of a single report I read of him being a 3-4 fit at all. Before the Combine everyone thought Harvey weighed under 270 lbs; it was a shock when he showed up at 271 lbs (University of Florida’s website listed him at 262 lbs.). A 6’ 4", 262 lb. player is not one that teams would look at as a 3-4 DE at all. I believe you are misremembering what happened here.

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by CaliforniaJag on Mar 25, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you're talking about him being a 3-4 OLB,

no one that I can remember thought that either. From my recollection, Harvey was a classic 4-3 DE prospect and was a poor fit in a 3-4.

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by CaliforniaJag on Mar 25, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember

Just like Watt if you go to several sites they have him listed as a fit for 3-4 LB…..as far as Harvey everyone raved about how athletic he was…just like Jarvis Moss and Vernon Ghoulston…here is one link saying a fit for harvey being a 3-4 LB.

http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=118&Itemid=1

also if you google “Derrick Harvey scouting report” you will see various reports like this. But i dont want to get off the subject…there all good DE’s but i think Kerrigan has the least risk.

by 100%real on Mar 25, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of teams worked Harvey out as an OLB

by Alfie Crow on Mar 26, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

So when exactly is Gene Smith telling the truth, or at least saying what you will believe?

Gene Smith said verbatim… “We are totally a 4-3 team personnel wise.”

Does that not compute in everyone’s head, is it not believed or do you just not agree with the General Manager of the team in charge of personnel that he is directly telling you what he is doing with said personnel?

I just don’t get it…. “I know we’ve talked about it a lot, but I’d like to talk about it some more”… even though the freaking GM said we’re a 4-3, we’re going to be a 4-3 in the future, it’s who we are.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Mar 25, 2011 8:32 PM EDT reply actions  

This

I thought the defense couldn’t get worse than last year, but it most certainly would if they tried to play the 3-4 with only one legit LB.

The best talent on the defense is on the line. Why not have more of them on the field instead of less? Might we be over-thinking things when players like Jeremy Navarre and Jacob Cutrera are defining our defensive alignments?

by shadowcamel on Mar 26, 2011 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

And another thing

Wouldn’t a 3-4 completely defeat the purpose of rebranding the D-Line “Rushmen”?

Wouldn’t that title have to be bestowed on the LB core? Who, pray tell, would you rely on to generate pressure in that scenario?

by shadowcamel on Mar 26, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let me know who generates pressure now, please.

by Alfie Crow on Mar 26, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kampman

Before the injury.

Granted, he’s far and away the best pass-rusher the Jaguars have. And we all understand that they need to generate more… a lot more.

But the 3-4 has already proven to neutralize Kampman’s pass-rushing ability (in GB) – why would you neuter the source of your best pressure?

If the transition to a 3-4 really made sense, they wouldn’t have signed a recently-injured player to a big contract who struggled in a 3-4… That’s a Shack move, not a Gene move.

by shadowcamel on Mar 27, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

We will now take everything the Jaguars say publicly, literal.

Deal?

It’s all or nothing.

by Alfie Crow on Mar 26, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about what they say for two years in a row...

and sign free agents, draft players to fit a certain purpose and so on and so on…

It’s not a one time statement, it’s a defiance to believe what they’re saying repeatedly. Wayne Weaver called for a statement of identity. Gene Smith, Jack Del Rio came out and said this is what we are. Then they showed it. The debate over whether or not it is effective or the correct course of action is where the debate should be… not in what they are. They’ve told you, they’ve shown you…

Keep banging your head against the wall and it doesn’t change reality, it just changes your concussed perception of it.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Mar 26, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just like in 2009, when they kept saying all off-season they were a 4-3 team and ran a 3-4 for half the season?

Again:

I don’t think in 2011 the Jacksonville Jaguars will run a 3-4 defense, but I strongly believe we will see some 3-4 fronts and looks. I feel that the Jaguars are building towards this transition, to make the full switch with a possible coaching change after the 2011 season. If the Jacksonville Jaguars draft either Watt or Jordan, it will only hammer home that feeling for me, as their potential starting defensive line in a 3-4 look would be young and incredibly talented.

Wayne Weaver also said the defense was too vanilla. Their blitzing was creative enough. What does that sound like to you? A straight up 4-3?

It’s just a massive coincidence Gene Smith’s been loading up on players who fit best in a 3-4, then?

by Alfie Crow on Mar 26, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

You over project

Just like in 2009 when they were trying different looks and then got smacked down by ownership when it flopped?

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Mar 26, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

That the players fit best in a 3-4 team

The best players on our team do not fit better in a 3-4 system. The weakest players may, but not the better ones.

Darryl Smith is a great 4-3 OLB. Tyson Alualu makes a bigger impact as a 4-3 DT. Aaron Kampman is FAR better as a 4-3 DE. Knighton could be a stud 3-4 NT, so that one may be debatable, but impact wise, paired with Alualu as more than a space eater, utilizing more pass rushing, I think he is better suited in the 4-3 as well.

It’s the tweener DEs on the roster that many believe would be better suited as stand up rush 3-4 OLBs that everybody seems to be focused on. Guess what? The LB corps just isn’t good. The smaller DEs Gene looks to find pass rush in. Bob Mathis style players. That’s why he constantly refers to Bob Mathis when talking about the likes of Larry Hart.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Mar 26, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Daryl Smith is a great LB, in any system.

How can you say Alualu makes a bigger impact as a DT? What are you basing that statement on? Why is Alualu better suited in a 4-3?

No one said the LB corps is good at all, last I checked.

Let me know when one of those players becomes Robert Mathis. Neither is close to what Mathis was at that point in his career. Mathis also has a guy named Dwight Freeney opposite him.

by Alfie Crow on Mar 26, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

You don't get it man...

Daryl Smith does not have the speed to play OLB in a 3-4. He would be a great inside LB, but just like speaking of Alualu, his value is diminished in a lesser capacity in that scheme. Smith’s value and impact is greater as an OLB in a 4-3 than it is as an ILB in a 3-4. Alualu makes a bigger impact in a 4-3 because he is able to utilize pass rushing and his speed to a greater degree than he would in a 3-4 scheme. Tenacity is of greater value when your primary job is not to take up space and blockers to create holes for other people. Alualu is a rush and chase guy, thus better suited/makes a bigger impact as a 4-3 DT.

I will let you know IF one of those guys becomes Robert Mathis. I never said the guys ARE Bob Mathis, I said Gene Smith is LOOKING FOR a Bob Mathis type guy and that is why those guys are on the roster. That’s what he’s said repeatedly. But I guess the man touted for being of high moral fiber and character and only bringing in character guys, obviously has none because he is a big fat liar to mask his secret dastardly desires to lie to everyone publicly so he can be a 3-4 after he runs JDR out of town for not producing with guys not meant for JDR style of play.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Mar 27, 2011 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also, what in the world in Gene Smith supposed to say?

“Oh, no we’re not totally 4-3 team personnel wise. I drafted some guys who are better fits in a 3-4, but we’re going to force them in a 4-3.”

by Alfie Crow on Mar 26, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

He could say a lot of different things...

How about any of the following:

With the rebuilding of the roster we are going to transition to the 3-4.

We now have the pieces that could be great in a 3-4.

With the evolution of the roster, we could be evolving into a different defense.

Mel Tucker will be running the defense, he has experience in a 3-4, we’re going to let him run his 3-4.

But he didn’t say anything close to that… for two years… has he?

What’s he supposed to say? ALFIE CROW, WE ARE GOING TO BE A 4-3 DEFENSE WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. I DISAGREE WITH YOUR PERCEIVED VISION OF MY ROSTER AND I AM BUILDING IT TO RUN A 4-3 DEFENSE.

What if he yelled through a bull horn while standing naked on your front porch with a notarized contract that he means what he says?

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Mar 26, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, those are all wonderful things to say.

Just drive that bus right up to your head coach who’s job is hanging by a string and cut it before the season even starts.

Right? Because that’s the good thing to do to him, is just crush his chances. Again, I am not saying they will be running a 3-4 RIGHT NOW.

What coaches and GM’s say publicly is politically correct and meant for the least amount of resistance to the fans.

by Alfie Crow on Mar 26, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

But your whole argument is that Gene Smith IS crushing his chances

You say he’s putting together a roster better suited for 3-4, but that they’re not going to play it right now… So instead of developing all these young guys in the system they’re supposedly going to be playing in sometime in the future, he’s just biding his time and letting these guys play a completely different system for a few years and then going to expect them to switch gears and get it to magically become a great 3-4 Defense. Is that your rock solid theory? Really? That the guy is rebuilding the roster with young talent just to waste the developmental stage of their careers? This shit is diabolical! Gene Smith isn’t a GM, he’s an evil genius. Maybe after all this happens, he can finally kill Super Man.

WTF IS THE INTERNET?!?

by BIBBEE on Mar 27, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

he will not be there....thats a fact

if Jordan is there at 15 please trust that Miami will trade down and someone will swoop in and get him….imo

by 100%real on Mar 25, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know...

I hear the 3-4 teams want Watt just as much. I think Watt will happen if Jordan is taken. But we should get one of them. I think that is the what the post is about.

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 26, 2011 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also, I would prefer the 3-4

I think we have the personnel and the 4-3 isn’t working. Our linebackers aren’t good enough except for Daryl Smith. So flood the backfield with extras and congest the passing lanes at least. Maybe 4-3 on running downs. Take pressure off the secondary.

Drafting 3-4 linebackers is easier too with more to pick from. For my money many of this class ie. Mark Herzlich, Nate Irvine etc. can’t play 4-3.

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 26, 2011 3:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Watt btw has the best KEI of the whole Combine at 81

Kirwan’s Explosiveness Index: NFL.com analyst Pat Kirwan came up with an index he insists – although he’s not a doctor or anything – relates to athletes explosiveness and also makes use of three of the the combine results no-one paid much attention to.

I think they are the bench press, vertical jump and the broad jump. Basically he just adds them all together – which doesn’t seem very scientific at all – and if its over 70 you’re very good.

In Watts’ case his bench was 34 + 37in+10feet = 81

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 26, 2011 5:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Kirwan

Should avoid math. That’s an awful index, if you’re describing it accurately, which you are based on a quick Google search.

My biggest gripe is the broad jump – most prospects jump between 7 and 11 feet. This totally does not give proper weighting to the difference between 8’2" and 10’6".

Football Outsiders, please come up with something better.

by shadowcamel on Mar 26, 2011 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agree and rec'd

Also they are straight added with no weighting adjustment and some positions which require long arms or speed suffer from the bench press taking over and dominating because most people’s vert and broad have smaller variations than the bench.

I do love the bench because it sort of indicates dedication.

Though I think the KEI is also an attempt to draw attention away from the 40 time which preoccupies everyone.

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 26, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jordan

Still a fan – hope he falls to 16.

My reluctance on Watt is tied to my spurning of the 3-4… he’ll probably be a very solid player for another team (Dallas?).

by shadowcamel on Mar 26, 2011 8:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Is it me or does Watt....

always make tackles on his knees….just look at his game highlights…he’s always diving at someone legs….that will not work against the likes of Big Ben, Peyton, Rogers just to name a few…I coach my players to stay off your knees unless you like boys…LOL…but please look him up on youtube…i need a form tackler not a guy who is so quick to leave his feet and dive at legs…that will get you nowhere in the NFL.

by 100%real on Mar 26, 2011 9:15 AM EDT reply actions  

That's an interesting point

The only time I watched him n the last bowl game, that’s what initially put me off him. He was very productive but looked clumsy always scrabbling around on the ground. I had forgotten that. But he was productive so maybe I should have forgotten that.

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 26, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he compares well to Justin Tuck.

Not that he was as productive as Tuck, but he plays low like Tuck has a reputation for. Both have a high motor, and both play on either side of the line. I just watched highlight video of both players and there wasn’t much difference in the two tapes.

by packerman on Mar 26, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Justin Tuck?

Then we should get him…

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 26, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

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