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4-3 vs the 3-4




It's time for the annual 4-3 vs 3-4 discussion that flies around here before the draft. I'm sure there is bound to be a much better and informed post on this not too long from now, but here's one man's perspective.

I really have been trying to fight away all feelings towards making the switch for a couple of different reasons, but there is some pretty interesting perspectives. When trying to form my own opinion, the critera I'm using comes down to a couple of different questions.

Star-divide

1-Do we have the talent more suited for 4-3 or 3-4?

    Given the money and draft picks we have already spent on our defensive line, and the disgusting-at-best group of linebackers we're currently under contract with (except of course D. Smith), my initial response is the 4-3. Fixing the linebackers seems like a much easier task than actually making a switch on defense.

2-Can we utilize the talent we already have more effectively in the 4-3 or 3-4?

   Actually, now that I think about things more...let's take a look at who might be more effective in this scheme. I remember going into last year, Derrick Harvey looked like he was going to have a great year. One of the reasons many thought he could potentially be a star was how he started to adapt to the hybrid we were running in 09. Sure, he wasn't worth, and isn't worth, the money we're paying him, but what's to say he couldn't pick up where he left off.

   If you remember, Daryl Smith was great in any spot 3-4 or 4-3 which provides some flexibility. I also remember Vic saying that Terrance Knighton closely resembles the prototypical 3-4 DT. Tyson Alualu was considered a 3-4 DE by many going into last years draft, and he could be supported by D'Anthony Smith. Between Mincey and Lane, the LDE position in a 3-4 could find a solid starter. What about guys like Larry Hart and Aaron Morgan? I would think that (even though they're still developing) playing the pass rushing linebacker would put them in position to at least be as significant as last year, which wasn't much by the way. Even LB Russel Allen might find a spot worthy of depth at MLB in the 3-4. The only man I see with a real issue at making the switch is Aaron Kampman, but after a second consecutive trip to the IR, I don't see his opinion making an impact.

3-Is there more talent available to us throughout the draft in the 4-3 or 3-4?

   As Alfie mentioned earlier, Kerrigan could provide a hybrid type DE/LB that could play to his strengths and find a real starter in the front 7. Other guys such as Ayers, Clayborn, Heyward, Ballard, Aldon Smith and Watt are all said to be able to play the strengths of the 3-4 and some to both defenses...again making a hybrid defense a way to give one of these guys a safe starting spot where they can make a strong impact someplace. In the opinion of many mock draft websites, most of the top end 4-3 talent will be taken in the top 14 spots, including Cameron Jordan.

4-Would a change of coaching plan affect us?

   Here is the piece that sells me on the 3-4 ticket. There will most likely already be a change of terminology and focus on gameday, anyways. Mel Tucker is supposed to be calling the shots on defense next year and this is already going to cause some changes. Who better to direct the flow of incoherence to brilliance than a 3-4 "mastermind." 

So as I have tried and tried to fight off the tempting, maybe sexy, change to the 3-4 defense, I keep seeing more and more reasons to say "Why not" instead of "definitely not." Perhaps making the switch would require the acquisition of less talent then revamping our entire LB corps and finding a pass rusher. I'm not saying we should for sure, but I'm definitely going into this draft with an open mind to a change of scheme.

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Linebackers are the key

to the 3-4 defense, we’ve put no premium on that position in recent years whether draft or free agency. Our top two picks last year were d-linemen who specialized in pass-rushing. I don’t see us making the switch. Plus we should at least wait till after the draft to discuss this again.

by duuuvaaalll on Mar 9, 2011 2:49 PM EST reply actions  

Pass rushing DT’s are typically fits as 3-4 DE’s. Alualu played 3-4 in college.

by Alfie Crow on Mar 9, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Good thought process. I FPed this. I know a lot of people are going to disagree, but I liked how you put your thoughts down.

Ironically enough, this draft is loaded with potential 3-4 players.

by Alfie Crow on Mar 9, 2011 2:57 PM EST reply actions  

I'm going

50/50

In Free Agency, if we can grab Paul Poluszny(he gets hurt, but still puts up incredible numbers), and add a guy like Travis LaBoy.

Poluszny would play ILB, and LaBoy would be an OLB,

3-4

DE: Alualu, Smith
NT: Knighton, Rookie
DE: Kampman, Lane
OLB: LaBoy, Hart
ILB: Poluszny, Allen
ILB: Smith, Cutrera
OLB: Rookie, Kampman

I can see Aaron Kampman being a 3-4 DE, he’s undersized(a lot), but he can generate a pass rush by taking up double teams, or while Knighton and Alualu are eating up double teams. LaBoy would sign a 2-3 year contract, at a decent price, and Poluszny get a 4 year big contract. The rookie would be Von Miller, Martez Wilson, Akeem Ayers, Dontay Moch, Mason Foster, etc. Also in the later rounds, we would draft a backup Nose Tacke.

4-3

DE: Kampman, Hart
DT: Alualu, Smith
DT: Knighton, ?
DE: Lane/Mincey/?
OLB:?
MLB:?
OLB:Smith

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by rhettchrystal on Mar 9, 2011 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

So basically...

You named your 3-4 lineup as Knighton, Kampman (who’s a terrible fit in a 3-4), Alualu, Daryl Smith and your wish list at LB and call that better than a 4-3 with Knighton (a near pro-bowler last year), Alualu, who made the all-rookie team as a DT, Kampman (who left a super bowl caliber team because he didn’t want to to play in a 3-4), and two guys in lane and mincey who were contributors last year….

Oy, you ppl…

by Brian Levenson on Mar 13, 2011 3:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Mincey would NOT be a LDE in a 3-4

He is terrible against the run. He’d have to play OLB.

Also don’t see why Kampman couldn’t play 3-4 DE as a Justin Smith-type of player; he’s more of an interior rusher than outside rusher anyway.

I think we have more personnel for a 3-4 than a 4-3. We need linebackers either way, but we at least have some developmental 3-4 OLB prospects in guys like Morgan and Hart. We pretty much have only one 4-3 linebacker.

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by CaliforniaJag on Mar 9, 2011 5:32 PM EST reply actions  

I also think Kampman can be a 3-4 DE

He gets pressure on double teams so a DE eating the double teams, and getting pressure, while LBs are blitzing, means good pressure.

And if only the lineman are in blocking, Knighton calls for double teaming, and so does Alualu, leaving AK one on one with a Tackle.

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by rhettchrystal on Mar 9, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Alualu demands a double team just yet

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by CaliforniaJag on Mar 9, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the insight on Mincey and

“We need linebackers either way, but we at least have some developmental 3-4 OLB prospects…” -exactly what I’m thinking.

by Mr.Awesome on Mar 9, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

No idea why you would want

Aaron K to be a 3-4 DE. He weighs 260lbs. He would need to bulk up to 285 lbs to play the DE spot in a 3-4.
Also, Justin Smith, when he played for the Bengals, used to weigh around 280ish and played the Leo spot in their 4-3 DE spot (they like to line up a heavier DE on the LDE spot, Even Odom who plays that spot weighs around 275 lbs. )

You really want a 3-4 DE to be around 6’3-6’6 and weigh around 285-320lbs.

Also, do the Jags run a 2 gap 4-3? I was wondering cause i’ve heard rumors about it and I was just curious.

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Cameron Heyward-Future 3-4 RDE for the New England Patriots

by NinjaZX6R on Mar 10, 2011 4:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I know we'd WANT him to be bigger,

My point was that if he has a spot in a 3-4, it’s not as an OLB; it’d have to be as a DE. I think he’d do okay even though he’s smaller than you’d like. In all likelihood, a 3-4 would mean Kampman was headed elsewhere.

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by CaliforniaJag on Mar 10, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I like the 3-4

3-4

DE: Alualu, Smith, Harvey
NT: Knighton, Baylor? – we’ve talked to him
DE: Kampman, Lane
OLB: Durant
ILB: Morrison
ILB: Smith,
OLB: Hart, Moch

We stop the run well in a division with two of the best running backs. I think it’s a strength of the personnel we have and we could still do that with a 3-4.
I think the 3-4 is more dynamic and gives you different looks that keep the offense guessing more.

But the main reason I advocate it is our back 7 don’t work. Add another linebacker and at least clog up the WCO passing lanes and backfield. Use quantity not quality until this year’s rookies are contributing at a decent level. This will take some pressure off the secondary too having another tackler floating around on passing downs.

I also think Morrison and Durant won’t be writeoffs and will perform better in a 3-4. Morrison as one of 2 ILB’s lack of pace isn’t a problem. Whereas Durant’s athleticism is more of a factor for offenses with increased rushing. Hart is also too small to play DE.
Harvey can still fill a run defence role.

The odd one out is Kampman who didn’t work in the Green Bay 3-4.

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 9, 2011 6:14 PM EST reply actions  

Well, Morrison and Durant are both free agents and I doubt either one will be back. I’d file Durant as being moved-on from for the same reasons as Sims-Walker.

by Alfie Crow on Mar 9, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I realise that about the FA

But for the sake of continuity and team chemistry I’d try and keep them IF they are capable contributors in the new scheme. I think It would be a less chaotic transition if NFL-proven players make it rather than rookies.

BTW Why do you think Durant will be moved on?
Money grabbing or some personality issue?

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 9, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Is continuity and team chemistry worth signing players who don’t help you on the field, though?

I think Durant is the same reasons as Sims-Walker. Injuries and they may feel he’s maxed out as far as production. I disagree on thought for Sims-Walker, but Durant has always been a high potential guy who’s never lived up to his physical talents and was hurt far too often.

by Alfie Crow on Mar 10, 2011 6:55 AM EST up reply actions  

No need for me to comment since this is beautfully put

the 3-4 makes a ton of sense for this team given what we have and what is available and who we have at DC

by Jagsrok9008 on Mar 9, 2011 6:50 PM EST reply actions  

Also in this weak linebacker crop most of the better players would for my money only be decent in a 3-4. Nate Irving, Mark Herzlich for sure. A lot of them lack the athleticism to play 4-3.

What could of happened; did.

by Mullayo on Mar 9, 2011 11:29 PM EST reply actions  

I think the point he's trying to make

Is on the inside for those particular LBs. Also, on the outside, you have guys that would typically be playing end in the 4-3 (or not at all on the 4-3) play OLB in the 3-4; this opens the pool of talent available for the 3-4 OLBs that wouldn’t be available or schemable as 4-3 OLBs.

by Mr.Awesome on Mar 10, 2011 5:49 AM EST up reply actions  

That makes sense

if thats what he was trying to say. I was thinking more that you want your stud players playing LB in the 3-4 as oppose to your big play makers playing up front in a 4-3. I tend to associate athleticism with talent even if they aren’t necessarily correlated, and I’d rather have the LBs be the most talented players on the field in a LB emphasized scheme.

by jstnblke41 on Mar 10, 2011 7:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I think

the 3-4 would work with our LB and we can switch compared to the team we play

by TheonlyJagsfaninSD on Mar 10, 2011 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

GMG says we'll draft for 4-3

I guess we can take that with a grain of salt.

(Panthera onca)

by viator on Mar 11, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions  

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