Let's Talk Defense
by Surteal on Apr 12, 2011 4:42 PM EDT
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After all, didn't Donald Brown leave us feeling like all hope was lost in 2010.....
There are many players in this draft that I'd like to see on the Jags but for this discussion, let's throw Christian Ponder, Leonard Hankerson and everyone else that plays offense out. Lets just talk about what we have available on the defensive side of the ball to choose from, but when you really think about it, all we're doing is being prepared for possible new players on the Jaguars. So, lets educate ourselves.
Alfie recently posted an article about Chris White, LB, Mississippi State. I disagreed with about everything Alfie said. That doesn't mean either one of us is right, but it did serve the purpose to get me thinking about White and other defensive players. So, I'll give you White first, and then we'll move back to more well-known individuals.
White, from what i remember, played junior college ball somewhere in the state of MS. He came in to Miss State a long shot to start. ( I used to attend the university and this was going on while i was there). White indeed did become a starter, but at outside linebacker, after starting in the middle in JuCo. While it was a change for him, he provided some good plays alongside an above average unit that also had returning junior KJ Wright, who is now draft eligible, and starting MLB Jamaar Chaney, now of the Eagles.
In 2010, White made the transition to MLB and I'll admit, I was leary. White made a fabulous transition, but it wasn't really a transition, it was his natural fit. White's made for the 43 MLB, or so it seems to me. I have heard other propositions, but it's not worth delving into schemes. This is just about whether or not "the player" is good and whether or not you want him on the team (not that any of us decide). So, please, take a look at this highlight video from the away game at Florida in 2010 and tell me what you think. Alfie was correct in pointing out that he is better against the run than the pass.
Originally, there were videos underneath each name, but they will not appear for whatever reason, so I've left you with a link.
Chris White, 43 MLB, Mississippi State University
6'3", 240 lbs
Now, for more players' videos, just for the sake of exposing.
Casey Matthews, MLB, Oregon
6'1", 231 lbs
JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
6'5", 290 lbs
Ryan Kerrigan, 43 DE, Purdue
6'4", 270 lbs
Rahim Moore, FS, UCLA
6'0" 202 lbs
Cameron Jordan, DL, California
6'4", 287 lbs
Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado (vs Blaine Gabbert 2009)
6'2", 211 lbs
Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
5'10", 191 lbs
Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA
6'3", 254 lbs
All height and weight is from NFL.com combine page and I think this is enough for now, some mid to late round LBers, a 2-3rd round safety and some first round talent
Let me know what you think of these guys.
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kerrigan and Jordan are really the only two guys that seem like real options at 16
i left watt out because he seems to be more of a 3-4 OLB. Although i would love to see us take a DE and then try to get Moore or one of the CBs in the second.
not to mention every football mind says this is a bad safety class
so Moore is still probably overrated. I still think if he’s there we should take him though.
Gene has said it dozens of times. Trust him, not us. Also, we’re taking an offering to help pay Eric Weddle’s gigantic salary with the jags over the next 5 years.
the only thing about weddle is they better be ready to pay him money
since hes arguably the best safety in FA and there are 4 or 5 teams that could really use his services. I really hope the Jags get him though
Sorry, I misunderstood. Nothing specific on Moore that I know of but he’s said many times that the safety class is weak. I don’t object to taking Moore but certainly not at 16.
good to hear
i completely agree. his tackling is something you can count on
he just seems to be mentally young in the game at times
Surreal to be Teal
The biggest difference between
Moore and Nelson? Moore is incredibly smart. Just watch/listen to an interview. Very smart player. And while he isn’t a hammer as a tackler, he is a consistent tackler.
i agree
great wrap up tackler
does smith really come across as less intelligent? i havent seen interviews
Surreal to be Teal
You wanna talk defense? Here’s what I want in a player:
good tackler: no more reggie nelsons
explosive: like a healthy aaron kampman (better, hopefully)
high motor: like our DTs, able to play every down (this won’t always be necessary because we want a deep rotation)
good at defending the pass: I feel like our defense is built more to stop the run than the pass and it’s killing us.
JJ Watt is your man then.
The guy has only been playing DE for 2 years. He was a TE prior to making the switch when he came to Wisconsin from Central Michigan. He was also the most explosive DE at the Combine if I remember correctly. I like his upside better than everyone else on that list other than Jordan. I personally think that what will make a better 43 DE than Jordan will however, unless we intend to run a more hybrid system. If we run the hybrid I would have selected Jordan.
That beatdown he gave to the running back at the goal line was incredible (not that he could do that with very many NFL backs)!! But yeah, I think the character concerns will put him lower on Gene’s board.
ive heard they were overblown
ill have to research more
who knows how much has no base
Surreal to be Teal
4.88?
Is that considered a fast 40 time for a DE/LB?
He's a better
ball hawk than either Berry or Thomas were last year. Both of them were just more combine-happy, and Moore is more of FS/CB than either of those 2.
I'm not sure if I like those options
but if I had to pick one at 16 I would go with Moore. He would immediately make our whole defense better.
A lot of the other guys either don’t fit(Cam/Watt), are gonna be busts maybe(Kerrigan), or not worth a 16th pick(White/Matthews, Harris). Jimmy Smith is off my board, not completely, but effectively. His risk wont match the reward when I’m picking, when you got teams like the Bengals out there.
im really intrigued by this
the more i watch of moore i can’t see him in the first
please convince me, i trust your judgement
Surreal to be Teal
The first thing I'm gonna say is
youtube highlights and even watching him on TV isn’t going to make you like him, because he’s not a box safety. So you almost have to partially ignore what you see there.
If you want to scout a ballhawking FS you need to watch him in person. And in person you can see that he has a great feel for both the field/spacing and the opposing offense.
Second, in the NFL, like the rest of the world, supply and demand dictates value/price. And right now a ballhawking FS is extremely rare. This year’s draft class is horrible after Moore. Last years class had Thomas at FS and that’s about it and to me he’s a better athlete, but only equal to Moore as an overall player. Next year’s class is fairly weak too. And when the last time a really good ballhawk was drafted? 2002 with Ed Reed
Also in our division can we really afford not to have a ballhawk when Peyton Manning and Matt Shaub are throwing it down field in part also because the pass rush is still not fixed?
To me you look at the categories/factors that make a good FS, and outside of being strong in the box, Moore has everything in spades.
Speed- good
Agility- great, good body control, great hips and change of direction
Tackling- good wrap up tackler, not great near the LOS, but a pretty good hitter when the ball is in the air
Hands/ball skills- Very good hands and cannot think of any drops to speak of, and a great judge of the ball in the air.
Size- not great but equal to most of the best balllhawkers in the NFL at 6’ and 207 lbs(Reed is 5’11 200, Weddle 5’11 203)
Football IQ- Probably the highest football IQ of ANY DB in the draft. The Peyton Manning of defense. And in the film room all the time. Also has lots of experienced players(Ed Reed) in his ear.
Health- never hurt in college and started every game starting with the first game of his true freshman year, even though he was significantly smaller than he is now, and he didn’t shy away from contact even then
Leadership- He was the leader of the defense and maybe even of the whole team. Also takes care of his body. Doesn’t eat any candy or fast food, both of which are important for longevity.
What else are you looking for?
Bust factor is very very low. Also we’ve seen that PAC-10 safeties are constantly being undervalued in the draft.
Jairus Byrd- 2nd round: no one even knew his name before the draft and was almost rookie of the year and he lead the league in INT’s
Thomas Decoud- 3rd round: Had all the ingredients of being a good FS coming out but no one paid attention and now the Falcons have what they consider what might be their best DB on the team.
Chris Horton- 7th round: Very good SS for the Redskins his rookie year(Been hurt as of recently)
Josh Barrett- 7th round: Despite being injured, NE thought highly enough of him to steal him from the Broncos waived/injured list(Like we did Carey)
T.J. Ward- 2nd round: Even though he was drafted as an injured player coming out of Oregon he garnered a 2nd round pick and he didn’t disappoint with 16 starts 123 tackles and 2 picks behind a very weak defensive front.
Jarrad Page- 5th round: Even when the Chiefs were in the dumps he was playing well and getting INT and NE thought well enough of him to trade for him even when hurt and with great depth on their team at S.
Al Afalava- 6th round: Made 13 starts as a rookie for Chicago.
Patrick Chung- 2nd round: Has 4 picks and 10 deflections despite being a box safety in FS roll behind a bad D front. Also had a great game against Miami where he had an INT and 2 blocked kicks.
The PAC-10 has no busts at S and usually they outperform their draft positions.
Also need to add
I don’t necessarily think he should be our pick at 16, but if certain players don’t fall to 16 Moore could be our best bet.
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