Are our receivers that bad?
by DeeMoe on Jan 14, 2012 6:57 PM EST
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PrintAs Mike Mularkey begins to examine the roster as well as put together his coaching staff, I began to wonder about the receiving corps. As I went through the roster mentally, I kept thinking: are our receivers really that bad? Chastin West, 6' 1", 207 lbs, 4.6 speed, adequate hands, can this guy serve as a possession receiver for this team? I'm sure this depends on coaching, but when I look at him catching those slant patterns against Indy during the first game, and the touchdown at the last game and I kept thinking this guy could be a good player for the Jaguars. Taylor Price may also be a keeper for us as well. 6' 0" 205 4.4 speed. I think the WR coach will be extremely pivotal in making these receivers players. Jarrett Dillard can also be a good third down receiver because of his route running and his good hands. Mike Thomas did have 66 catches last year, just nothing deep. I think someone like a Vincent Jackson or DeSean Jackson would be the only receiver we could need. Looking for some input on this one guys. Help me out on this one everyone!
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simple answer: yes
just look at the production from them last year. they are mediocore at best.
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
I hear you but look at the guys on the roster
Not one was drafted to be a game breaker. We picked up West from GB and Price from NE. Maybe it was the coaching as well as the scheme. Wes Welker wasn’t that dangerous when he played at Miami, but when he went to NE he becomes a catch machine in that scheme. Jimmy Graham is a basketball player who is just coming into his own because of that scheme. If they are cut, so be it, but I really think that our offensive scheme did not fit the receiving corps.
Welkr has Brady and Graham has Brees
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
So then it is
about the QB and not the playcalling? or the scheme?
by DeeMoe on Jan 14, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well
it is a combination.
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
In a word... probably
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Jan 14, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
both
it doesn’t matter the QB if you can’t get open and it doesn’t matter if you are open if your QB can’t get it there
by kungfuman104 on Jan 15, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Ok after..
I think Price, Robiskie, and West will be given a chance in training camp no matter who is brought in during the Offseason and/or FA, I think Shorts is safe unless he is just flat out awful during camp and hopefully Thomas is gone, shipped out or cut, I don’t really care which.
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Jan 14, 2012 8:25 PM EST reply actions
If mike thomas gets traded
on draft day it should be at least for a 4th round pick. But he has the potential to be really good still. He hated that he was playing with Gabbert which is a character issue.
by childintime12 on Jan 14, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
Well in that case he has to go,
Because Gabbert isn’t going anywhere anytime soon
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Jan 14, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
And you’re getting he hated playing with Gabbert from where?
by Alfie Crow on Jan 15, 2012 1:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like all of them but
Theres no number 1 guy. M80 needs someone to open stuff up same as lewis. If we brought in one WR who would start, even if its brandon lloyd then that would be fine because the others will be better than. You need a playmaker. What we have are special WR and most of them are possession WR. A speed WR and a playmaker WR are needed. I think Harry DOuglas will be favored by Mularkey for sure. How we get the playmaker I dont know.
It wasn’t a good receiving corps by any stretch, but I believe they could be functional.
A lot of people are saying you can’t properly judge Gabbert with the shoddy receiving corps. I’d say the opposite is true as well. You can’t judge the Jaguars receivers (especially not by statistics) when the quarterback throwing the ball to them was an unprepared, inaccurate rookie.
I’ll be glad to add a few guys at the position, but I see where DeeMoe is coming from in asking how bad the receivers really were.
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
I know what most of you are thinking but
I thought it was players not plays until I saw the 49ers play today. Alex Smith was/is just like Gabbert and he made some wow throws today. The same players who did not play well for Singletary played lights out for Harbaugh. What’s the difference? You do need players, but you need players with the right coaches. These same guys would have been a lot better with Todd Monken in my opinion.
I’m sure dropping passes, running horrible routes, running the wrong routes, and flat out giving up on routes were all due to the inaccurate QB, though.
by Alfie Crow on Jan 15, 2012 1:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Do you have a playbook?
Do you know that it was the receiver who was in the wrong spot and not the ball? Mike Thomas has had an 800 yard season I doubt he just “got less talented” overnight.
Re: Garrard stuff. With Garrard, the team had a functional passing game. Not good, but functional. I personally think this year’s receivers had more talent than those groups. They just didn’t perform, which with a really shaky QB situation including 3 different starters and a shortened offseason isn’t a huge surprise.
I want one in FA and one in the draft. That’d be enough for me.
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Jan 15, 2012 4:42 AM EST up reply actions
You seriously believe this years's group is better than the last few
Seriously?
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
If you ain't first, you're last.
Last year: Jason Hill, MSW, Tiquan Underwood, Mike Thomas, Osgood.
This year: Jason Hill (later released), MSW (off waivers), Dillard, Cecil Shorts, Chastin West, Mike Thomas, Osgood.
So let’s do this:
Last year: Thomas, Osgood, Underwood, MSW, Jason Hill
This year: Thomas, Osgood, Dillard, Shorts, West.
West > Underwood (cuz let’s face it, Underwood just can’t catch)
Dillard > MSW (MSW was released by a team with trouble at receiver before landing here)
Shorts ? Hill (I liked Hill, but obviously he was deemed not good enough by the team and released)
So do I think they’re better than last year’s players? I wouldn’t necessarily say “better” is the best word, but I think the 2011 receiving group had more talent.
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Jan 15, 2012 7:06 AM EST up reply actions
If last years' guys had more talent, why would the team discard them?
If the team actually was less talented this year, why wouldn’t they have resigned Underwood and MSW after last year, and why would they have released Hill?
If you think I’m terrible at evaluating talent, then in some ways you think the Jaguars are, too. I, for one, just think there weren’t any great options available and Gene did what digging he could on other teams’ rosters.
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Jan 15, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously?
I could sit here and delve into specifics but the simple answer to that statement is, wrong. While the receiver position was greatly misjudged last season, to say Gene has been terrible at evaluating talent is doing him a terrible injustice.
by kjones407 on Jan 15, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
we are talking about WR's here
looking at our roster, this conclusion doesn’t seem too unreasonable…
"...I'm not trying to act giddy but the guy is a stud.'' - Terry McDonough, Director of Player Personnel, Jacksonville Jaguars
Excuse me.
I thought it was a general statement.
The WR were slightly better
But without experience at QB they are trash.
by childintime12 on Jan 15, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Lmao
You don’t have a playbook but that doesn’t stop you from bashing Gabbert.
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Jan 15, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
A great QB will make them look good.
An average QB will make them look decent.
A bad QB will make them look horrible.
Anyone interested in making money easy and quick on the interne, let me know through twitter or facebook(preferably facebook).
"thanks for hating"
"Give it up now before its too late!…. CJ will be shut down? Nevermind, its already too late." AZ TiTan10
Horrible receivers make a rookie qb look worse.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
If you ain't first, you're last.
So does an inaccurate arm...
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Jan 15, 2012 4:43 AM EST up reply actions
Just keep telling yourself that it's all Gabbert's fault
The way you jump to conclusions and refuse to concede you are wrong, you could write for PFT or ESPN.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
If you ain't first, you're last.
After 14 games, I'm not jumping to conclusions.
I’m seeing what’s there.
And I know it’s not all Gabbert’s fault, but thinking that Gabbert is faultless and that everything is going according to plan is naive. He struggled throwing the ball. A lot.
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Jan 15, 2012 7:09 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with BL and with what the article says which may be the same..
Yes there were drops and poor routes were run (assuming this as I don’t have the play book). But if you believe that by bringing in big name WRs that all our problems are solved then you are definitely wearing teal colored glasses.
Blaine was horrible.. period. You can sugarcoat that any way you want but if he doesn’t make significant progress in the off season; then you can bring in the best WRs and we will still lose a lot of games.
Does anyone simply believe bringing in big name wide receivers will fix the problems? Does anyone believe Blaine Gabbert is fine as is, and doesn’t need a lot of work and needs to significantly improve?
This is a serious question: Does anyone believe that singular thing will fix everything?
Stop building up ridiculous straw men based on hyperbole.
Hyperbole,... pot calling kettle black?
Well congratulations you get .50 for using a big word.
But the only hyperbole I see on here is everyone bashing the WRs implying all the problems were the WRs. That drafting Blackmon and/or getting VJ in free agency is some magic fairy dust will fix a QB that looked scared in the pocket, has horrible foot work and had issues hitting receivers when he wasn’t getting pressure.
Read the comments some time.. some of the things said on here (even by you) about the WRs are hyperbole. Its just fans praying that their scared QB will somehow improve magically after one season.
So let me say it slowly without “hyperbole”: Even with improved WRs and a full off-season.. We may very well still be looking at a scared QB who cant hit his receivers.
Recievers that can actually get separation...
may give him somewhere to go with the ball, then I don’t think he will look as “scared” as you say.
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Jan 15, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
It may not look...
as bad, but a lot of QB fade back in the face of pressure. Gabbert just has to learn how step into the throw before he starts to fade.
Calling the worst starting QB in the league the worst starting QB in the league is not jumping to conclusions.
You can make excuses for him but that’s what he was last year.
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Jan 15, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
You're really gonna act like no one's making excuses for Gabbert?
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Jan 15, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well when you said
You can make excuses for him but that’s what he was last year.
That seems to be directly specifically at Alfie, implying that he is making excuses, which would make his reply a response to that statement, not the thoughts and opinions of everyone who posts on BCC.
Maybe I misinterpreted though
"...I'm not trying to act giddy but the guy is a stud.'' - Terry McDonough, Director of Player Personnel, Jacksonville Jaguars
After 14 games, you are ready to call him a bust
Nobody said he is blameless or anything close to that. You just choose to think that there is no chance of him getting better.
You can't reason with unreasonable people.
If you ain't first, you're last.
In the second half of the season
Gabbert was pretty accurate. He was the only rookie QB to improve as the season went on.
by childintime12 on Jan 15, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
My answer to this is...
do I think they are as bad as some make them out to be? By saying they suck,calling them garbage and whatever else can be said to say they’re not any good. No, I don’t think so. Are they a group of under performers? Definitely, without question. Thinking of this made me come up with what I’d call the “Patriot” test. Basically saying that, if you were take our group of receivers and put them on Patriots would they be able to be successful enough to allow that team to continue to be as good as they are. Thinking about them like that doesn’t make them seem so bad because if they had Brady throwing them ball, with his o-line blocking for him the way they do and were to have Gronkowski and Hernandez drawing attention, I’m inclined to say they’d do fairly well. While this test if very limiting because almost any group of wideouts would most likely do well in that situation, to me, it does help you view them in a different light. So as I said, while they may be a group of under performers, it’s easy to see that it’s much more that goes into a group of receivers being successful than how good or how bad they are.
by kjones407 on Jan 15, 2012 3:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The test will come when our WR's start getting released, does anyone pick them up...
until then it’s just our opinion. After then it will be everyone’s opinion.
In my opinion
Gabbert to me is not a bust. He is an unfinished product. The question is now whether or not he is damaged goods. Can the offensive coaches teach him how to be a professional QB. Also can GM Gene find the right offensive playmakers to improve this offense to at least middle of the road. You all made great points. Thanks
by DeeMoe on Jan 15, 2012 4:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think
we have a bunch of understudy type of receivers that can flourish when a game breaker is on the field, but when they are trying to get seperation and there is noone to draw a double team or safety interest then they look horrible like they did. Also it was West’s first year was it not, and Price just joined us. Dillard finally healthy. Lewis couldn’t catch a ball to save his life and mike thomas needs to be used as a slot guy. And again this is just my view of the WR corp.
Dammit just go out there and play to win and I'll be here to cheer!!!!
We need three new starters at WR. I can’t see Mike Thomas (our best WR) moving past the four spot.
by Catfanatic1979v1 on Jan 15, 2012 11:56 PM EST reply actions
2 FA WR's
and either a 1st or 2nd round on a WR. That would allow us to have weapons like the Saints, Giants, Patriots, Packers, Steelers, Falcons, Texans, and every other playoff team.
it’s not rocket science, as much as gene smith wants us to think it is
they're bad; it's safe to say our WR's didn't do much to make our QB look good
I don’t recall watching too many games and saying “wow, we’re lucky that pass was to X; because that could have been a turnover.” I don’t recall ever say “wow, he really put a move on X”. Go ahead and try to find great plays on http://www.nfl.com/videos. You won’t find very many. I see a Dillard pass in 2009 where the FS pulled a hammy. I see M.Thomas beating a LB, and a few blow coverage’s. It’s just not that pretty.
On the other hand next year should be very different. It’s a good FA year for WR’s, and I think we could easily bring in two FA plus a draft pick. That’s 3 spots gone. You carry 7 on your roster, and Mike Thomas is the closest thing we have to a lock. That’s how bad our roster is, we have a single slot/3rd or 4th receiver in M.Thomas.
That means half of these guys are gone, and for the most party they shouldn’t even play:
Shorts (should get a 2nd chance despite being a bust so far, but we heard the GM was pissed at how he was handled)
Price (stats-wise he’s the best of this bunch, never really made it on a good team)
West (marginal speed, kinda big, never really made it on a good team)
Robiskie (marginal speed, kinda big, tried and tossed from the active roster on very bad team)
Osgood (effective in other parts of the game that don’t involve catching or route running)
Dillard (slow, generally speaking he’s a perfectly good guy throw timing patterns to)
I'll give you 3
1-you do something that makes you position coach / OC refuse to play you
2-you drop more balls than you caught (3 vs. 2)
3-you only catch two passes all year, equal to the amount of interceptions you’re involved with
That’s just terrible. Now I hope he’ll improve, but based on what we’ve seen so far, I think it’s fair to throw the B word around.
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