Blaine Gabbert REVISITED 2011 draft
by Jagorama on Jan 16, 2012 10:47 PM EST
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Let me start off by saying last year I was beating the drum for Christian Ponder, who now has been a relative mediocre QB for the Vikings. I was shocked that we were able to get the arguably number one or two rated QB in the draft last year. I figured we got "value" for our pick.
Unfortunately, I knew there was a lot of negatives for Blaine coming out of Missouri, but I chose to ignore them, knowing that we would succeed with Blaine. Now with the season over, one article I read last year kept popping up in my head. Its a rather scathing article on Blaine prior to the draft, that projects him as a bust. I'm curious what everyone thinks of Blaine for the future compared to this article.
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Well
he went for 2 TDs and 0 INTs in his two game against CIN and PIT’s tough defense…CIN was 1st then, but finished 7th, and PIT finished 1st…
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Great stats
But like the comparing stats to Leinart thing you could play that game all day and there wouldn’t be a clear cut answer.
Tools – Check
Audibles – Check
Decision Making – Check
Accuracy – Working on it
Pocket awareness – The “in” topic
Protection – Ummm
Receivers – Errr
Coaches – Finally! On there way. Now maybe we can start working on accuracy through recievers.
We drafted the arm
Especially since behind the arm, there is intellect. Cam Newton had a dozen articles pointing out his weaknesses as well, and yet they are seemingly wrong. Qbs have flaws and strengths, it’s nothing new. Happens every year.
This article can be summarized with this: Even though he has everything you would want physically from a qb with a high football IQ, he has stats that suggest he’s a raw guy that will require a lot of coaching and time to reach his peak. We already knew that.
By the way, just because he has stats comparable to Leinart doesn’t mean he will bust, we could play that game all day and get nowhere.
What we didn’t know is that he would be forced into starting 6 weeks into his career with all his raw weaknesses barely touched by the coaches.
its saying
even though everybody thinks hes a good qb hes not which is accurate up until this point
but next year will tell us everything
and he was a top 10 pick. he wasnt viewed as a huge project otherwise he would have been drafted later. no one before gabbert came out was saying he was going to take 3 years to develop thats just the excuse everybody is floating around after the fact
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Jan 17, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think people were saying that he needs 3 years to develop. They were talking about letting him sit behind Garrard for 1 year, and hoping that he could make enough progress that there wouldn’t be too much of a competition in training camp.
I expect that we’ll see quite a bit of progress after a full offseason, and if we don’t see major improvement next year, we’ll most likely have a low enough draft position to pick another QB.
there were a few false assumptions last year
Assumption 1 was that we were a playoff ready team. We were not. But there’s no way in hell Weaver could have sold that to the fanbase. 2010 gave us false hope similar to 2007. Truth is, we were a very lucky team in 2010. Could have easily been 4-12. The Denver Broncos seem to have taken that baton from us.
Assumption 2 was that Garrard would easily hold off the rookie. He did not. Ideally, we have a similar situation to the Titans. We don’t. Page has turned.
Assumption 3 was that Luke McCown was a serviceable NFL quarterback. He is not. He wanted no part of what turned out to be a very pedestrian Jets defense. JDR reacted (some may say overreacted) and once he made the move to Gabbert, there was no turning back.
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Sorry but the team
was a solid passing offense away from being a playoff caliber team. Winning in the playoffs, probably not, but they would’ve been in the hunt with anything close to last years scoring output.
In 2010 the team averaged 23+ pts per game. If they could’ve had that same production they certainly would’ve won a few more games. Heck, there’s at least 1-2 games they lost because of the the Punter early in the season.
I think the point he was making
About 2010 is that we got a lot of lucky breaks. Like chris brown screwing things up on goal line fumbles, hail marys, 59 yard field goals. Yes, a lot of things like this happens to teams every year, but we hyped 2010 to expectations that were flawed. Just like the broncos this year, a lot of lucky no-call holds and an offense that over achieved.
Yes, we’re a solid passing offense away, I’d agree. I don’t think Joe said anything that goes against that either, as being a passing offense away is still not enough for us to have assumed we were a playoff ready team.
In 2011
the Jaguars scored 15.2 pts/game. In 2010 they score 22.1 pts/game or nearly a full TD/gb better. I’m sorry but if they could’ve maintained that level of scoring production, whether it was through passing, rushing and/or defense/special teams TD’s, they would’ve been in the hunt for the playoffs this year.
And it wasn’t just the passing offense. Special Teams took a significant step back as did the running game. Of course MJD got the rushing title, but as a team their run production was down 425yds on the season.
I think a lot of it comes down to coaching, I really do
Everyone aside from JDR knew where they were getting their paycheck from for the 2012 season. Just watch the Chargers buckle under next year.
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Where exactly are we disagreeing?
I don’t disagree with any of this. My entire point is emphasizing on the point that we mistakenly took our team for being a playoff contender when we weren’t, and I think Joe brings up a couple of valid points on issues we weren’t prepared for based on assumption.
You’re throwing out a lot of offensive statistics, but leaving out that our defense was way better than anyone would have imagine, and been taken seriously this year than last. Our defense did everything in spite of such a poor offense.
So if we take the offense from 2010 into 2011 we’re a playoff team. Maybe the defense of 2011 into 2010 would have been a playoff team.
Either way you look at it, I still don’t know where we’re disagreeing, here.
And I'm saying it wasn't a mistake to think that
just because it didn’t happen. Few people expected the Offense to regress so significantly and had they not, the team would have been a playoff contender.
after the final shakedown a LOT of things came into play from every team in the division where we could have made it
Houston losing Schaub, Foster, Johnson, WIlliams for a significant period of time
Indy losing Manning all year and Clark and the bookend rookie O linemen for a significant period of time
Tennessee losing Britt and CJ2K playing like crap
Our deficiencies are well documented.
My point is, even if things did swing in our favor, it would just have masked some deficiencies as 2010 and 2007 did. The 2011 season may be that season we look back at as a character builder for great things to come. Plus, I believe a lot of things were spun in motion in direct relation to the ownership change. Only 2 people know that.
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I agree with...
pksiv on this as far as assumption one goes. He’s right, we were a passing attack away from being a playoff contender. With last years defense and running game, we surely could’ve been in the hunt if things would’ve worked out as planned with Garrard starting like he was supposed to be. No one has to agree with me, but the plan Gene had in mind was a really good one that could’ve had us playoff ready earlier than we were supposed to be. Now it’ll probably take another year or two to get us were we need to be as Blaine gets up to speed.
we were a passing attack away, but we made coaching changes very late in the game at 2 very important areas
bear in mind the coaches had to get on board with Koetter’s offense as well at a quick enough pace to teach the players. It’s like in college when you have Staff as one of your professors and your prof who was expecting to teach English Comp 2 but ends up teaching Elizabethan Poetry.
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Even the talking heads said Gabbert needed to sit and learn for a year or two. It’s not an excuse. He was a raw prospect. If he was going to be successful at all, he needed time to sit.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
He definitely needed more pieces around him and a more stable situation than what he had
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...and a year or two to sit and learn. I agree.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I never said that
You give him a true #1, stable coaching and an O line worth a damn, he would have shown a hell of a lot better. We had a freaking rookie from essentially a 1-AA school blocking for him and another guy who was a cast off from the Giants on the other end.
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The biggest problems
were the injuries at RT and LG. If Britton came in and played decently, Gabbert would have done a lot more rolling to his right to buy more time. That’s what right handed QBs do. Look at TJ Yates; even behind that great pass blocking line and throwing to Andre Johnson, he ended up rolling to the right on a ton of plays.
Rackley was making a position switch, and Spitz should have been starting until he was up to speed. He’ll be better next year with a full offseason and time in the weight room.
Almost every time Gabbert tried to roll out (if Rackley missed or got moved, causing pressure up the middle), the other team’s LDE was there to clean up.
Spitz was injured most of the year
And a lot of Monroe’s poor performance early in the year was due not only to his reduced girth, but also overcompensating for Rackley. But, I have faith in Rackley.
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Injuries
pretty much forced Rackley into a sink-or-swim situation. I think he did pretty well, and should continue to improve.
averaged a sack a game
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He should
But Offensive Lineman should never be the guys that you want to have to work the kinks out in-game.
Just because he wasn’t THAT bad last year doesn’t mean he should start this year, because truth be told he was pretty bad.
We have 5 guys that can take a C and G spot on the interior line, but at best only one of them we can really count on coming back this year (see: Vince Manaui last year).
I say sign Carl nicks and make Rackley fight his way into that starting line.
Definitely
I’m not casting a final judgment on Rackley. He sucked, but ideally Manuwai had 1 or 2 years left in the tank. He did not.
character builder
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why Joe do you have faith in Rackley?
Based ib what?
I didn’t see him much and the pro footballl focus stuff was pretty damning so illuminate me…
What could of happened; did.
Well after
Rackley got healthy, he improved a lot. Lots of rookies get worse as the year goes on…rookie walls and etc
The ones that improve usually continue to improve.
Agree
Plenty of FAs at WRs, a big name FA G, options at RT in the first (even with a trade back), and options at WR in the 2nd round are all opportunities we should have.
I feel an interior lineman and a RT are as big of a need as WRs at this point.
Yet that same O-line
blocked just fine for the NFL rushing leader.
by pksiv on Jan 17, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's like saying a Defensive Line is okay
As long as they can stuff the run. Who needs pass rushing right?
totally discounting pass blocking
run blocking is typically a battle of mass and power vs. speed and power, not to mention you try to keep the FB and at least 1 TE in to assist.
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I don't understand...
you’re stance on Rackley. He wasn’t that bad later in season as he was in the beginning. You’re bashing of Whimper is more than warranted though.
"the biggest problems were the injuries..."
Not Rackley’s fault other guys got injured. He got a little better, true. He still played bad enough that a starting spot shouldn’t be guaranteed or anything. I’m all for giving guys time to develop, as I’ve said plenty on this site, but he wasn’t exactly attacking Rackley as much as saying he sucked for most of the year, which he did.
That's nonsense.
Rackley did not suck for most of the year. At the beginning, yes. But towards the end of the year, I could barely notice him, which is exactly what you want from an offensive lineman. I don’t remember too many times later in the season screaming “What the hell was that Rackley?” “Awww man, you suck” at the TV, the way I was constantly doing with Whimper.
he averaged a sack a game
The plan was never for him to start off the bat. He was thrown in and at times was very overmatched and overwhelmed. He will improve though with the benefit of an NFL training table and regimen
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my noggin
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Even if...
what you’re saying is true, unless you go back and review every one of his sacks and place blame to each one of them, then this stat can’t be used to fully support what you’re saying about him. Blame him for the sacks where he got blew off the line and the defender got the sack. But not for the ones where Blaine might have ran into it or the coverage sacks, which it is almost a certainty some of them were.
Without reviewing ALL of the plays it's hard to get absolute proof
Who’s to say Monroe didn’t bail him out on would-be sacks. One thing I remember it always seemed like his penalties that negated 3rd down conversions. I also remember seeing Monroe get whooped when Rackley couldn’t follow the blocking assignments – and that’s what I saw at the end of the year. He still wasn’t getting blocking assignments. He got strong supporting the run but he often looked confused. It’s a rookie thing, which is why I’m not concerned that he will suck. Right now he sucks, but he wont in the future. Even if he didn’t suck, he didn’t play so well that I’d think he has a locked spot in as a starter, which is my entire point. He didn’t play well enough to secure a starting spot. I don’t think anyone can honestly say that he did. Not saying he can’t come tear it up in the preseason and earn it, but he hasn’t yet.
dude he was terrible
look at profootballfocus if you want how he played exemplified. he was the WORST GUARD at one point in the year and only played up to a bottom 5 guard towards the later part of the year.
he sucked no question about it. does that mean he cant improve no but the fact is he wasnt good
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Jan 17, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Okay.
But I’m not going to let what profootballfocus says make up my whole opinion of a player. I’ll take it into consideration but what my eyes tell me will count for much more. Especially when it comes to offensive linemen considering you can see them for almost the whole play, making it much easier to judge them. What my eyes told me is, that he didn’t play as bad as either of you, or anyone else, says he did.
And what you said about profootballfocus doesn’t prove that he played terribly. It’s obvious that his initial ranking as the worst guard derived from the poor start he got off to at the beginning of the season, yet the fact that he finished a few rankings higher could mean a number of things.
1) It could mean that the players above him played poorly than he was and moved themselves lower in the ranking as he continued his poor play.
2) The players above him played at the same level and he continued to play better, moving himself up the list.
3) Or maybe a combination of the two happened.
There really is no way to tell unless you go research all of those players entire season. I’m not going to go and do that, so I’ll just stick with my opinion and let you all have yours. Lastly, if you start off last in a statistical rating, regardless of how well you end up doing, you’re not going to up much higher on that list unless those ranked above you have a complete collapse. So that ranking of Rackley cannot be the final word on well he did throughout the entire season.
thats why i use sites like profootballfocus
they arent biased, well put together and they break down every play and every player
they were one of the sites that really started on the Daryl Smith is a great player bandwagon
they do all that tedious work for us and their work shows that rackley is a poor pass block and not an effective run blocker
when i first initially saw this i said that cant be right but i then started to single out rackley in games and it showed to me that he struggled in every aspect of being a lineman
he is an average athlete who isnt overly strong, has trouble with footwork and can get beat with simple moves. he also provides nothing in the run game giving little push and problems even hitting guys when he pulls. thats what i saw thats my opinion and the stats back it up with him allowing more than 5 pressures in several games
not saying that he cant be good or that he didnt improve towards the end of the year but a majority of last year he was bad
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Jan 17, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
We can agree...
to disagree here but there is no way you can say he offered nothing in the run game. There is no way MJD would’ve been able to do what he did with a weak link in the run game on the offensive line the way you’re saying Rackley was. I know he struggled in pass protection most of the season but run blocking had to be a strength of his. I’ve read several scouting reports on him and one thing I know for a fact that he did well for most of season without having to see any of the games again is redirect defenders. While he may not have been able to get the push you were referring to, his ability to redirect a player is all he would have to be able to do open up a whole. With MJD being able to hit the whole like he can, by the time the defender sheds the block, it’s already too late because Jones-Drew is already getting positive yardage.
Per NFL.com here are the offensive line stats as they refer to rushes to the left and up the middle where Rackley was doing all of his run blocking:
Left –
1st Downs: 32
Negative plays: 18
10+ yard plays: 20
Power runs: 57
Center –
1st Downs: 45
Negative plays: 10
10+ yard plays: 21
Power runs: 81
Right –
1st Downs: 25
Negative plays: 16
10+ yard plays: 10
Power runs: 46
I added the right side to have a fair comparison of how the run plays broke down for the entire offensive line. What I get from this is that the strength of the run blocking was to the left and up the middle, where Rackley was. If that wasn’t the case, then I’m sure that would’ve changed as the season went on as the coaches noticed it from watching film. I understand that he didn’t do it alone but he was a very important part of it and couldn’t have been as much of a weaknesses in the run game as you are saying he was. We both have stats that neutralize each others opinion, so I’ll leave it at that.
3 games at the end
Is not most of the year. I’m not a Rackley hater or anything, he was just very bad at everything up until the end, where even his pass blocking was still weak.
He certainly can get better, but you can’t bank on it. He doesn’t have a locked in start IMO. He didn’t earn it.
No, he wasn't.
I don’t remember him standing out one way or the other since the Monday Night game against the Ravens, which was the 7th game of the season.
why take someone that needs to sit with a top ten pick?
the draft doesnt work that way
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Jan 17, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Good question.
If you think he’s a franchise QB it’s worth it.
If he’s not, you get accused of overdrafting, waste three to five years of your team’s time and every shmo starts to seriously doubt the man making the decisions.
I like Gene and the pick CAN be justified, but it’s risky, especially in the short term.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly right.
Whatever weaknesses Gene saw in Gabbert he felt he could develop before they were exposed. Oops.
I still find it funny how so many people yelled for more sexy picks and called Gene too safe, then they started berating him when it turns out that the risk/raw guys play like raw guys…especially while they’re still raw, and are especially risky.
If Gene ends up being right he’s a hero. If wrong, he’ll get fired. That’s the way it works.
Who says it doesn't work that way ?
QB’s are often drafted high, and will be even more now that their rookie contracts aren’t as ridiculous, with the idea that they’ll sit for a little while until they’re ready. They often don’t because QB it the reason the team had a top 10 pick to begin with.
This is pointless
Every QB that torched the Big 12 turned out to be no good. So we got the QB who was average in there. College means nothing. Andrew Luck is accurate in college but wont be in the NFL because of the speed change. Gabbert is going to be a good QB and I honestly believe that. He has mental and physical toughness. He flinched early on but it went away. He was wild early on but the last 4 games he was very accurate. His velocity is second to none. His deep ball will be better with deep threat who can run. He has good mobility. I do not regret the pick and would do it all over again. The Vikings would have took him 12th so we had to trade up. You cant win without a solid QB, lets give ours some time.
I was with you (kinda) until Andrew Luck
What tells you Luck wont be good because of the speed change? Your crystal ball? If college doesn’t matter there’s not a statistic you can even use that is relevant to even support that.
I’m 100% for giving Blaine time. Our team included, I think there’s only about 5 teams that wouldn’t trade their QB for Luck, including one with a recent top pick (Rams). Luck has all these features you talk about, but without all the flaws of guys like Gabbert. There are seemingly no flaws, at all, for a team without any great receivers.
And to be quite honest I think saying he sucks before you’ve seen his flaws is about as ignorant as saying Gabbert can’t develop because of his flaws.
Until he’s a rookie and we finally get a glimpse at what those flaws are (if not just rookie mistakes) all you can really say is “wow, if you use college as a guideline (which nfl teams pay lots of money to scout) he’s about as perfect a QB as you can scout.”
O yea and Bradford sucks
Blaine is already better than Bradford but ESPN wont tell you that.
You're right, ESPN won't tell you that...
Because Blaine wasn’t better than Bradford.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 2:15 AM EST up reply actions
Remember, I'm a Blaine Supporter
But he wasn’t. There’s a difference between how good a player is and what their peak is. Argue the peak all day long and I’d support him, but don’t tell me Gabbert was better than any expected starter last year except maybe Rex Grossman or Tim Tebow.
Rex had his moments
Colt McCoy was mediocre, and T. Jack was horrendous.
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I never read this article pre-draft.
I was just going off the eyeball test and some basic statistical analysis. It probably would’ve helped me make my case against Gabbert without being seen by some as a whiner.
Good to see I wasn’t the only one.
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We will know next year, until then its all speculation.
Take stock in your lives, but leave your livestock alone
Correction:
We will know next year, until then all we have is his 2011 performance, which was bad.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
Your biggest flaw is that you make a flat determination and refuse to take into account everything the kid had going against him
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Why do you assume that I haven't taken other things into account?
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
because your premise is the kid sucks and he's as good as he's ever going to get
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Where have I ever said that?
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
that has been your MO since Garrard was cut
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No, my “MO” was that ever since anyone even started talking about QBs for the 2011 draft, I disliked Gabbert.
I thought he would be ineffective and he was. What would have changed my mind between then and now? A year of 50% completions and a 5-11 record?
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
there's your trademark tunnel vision.
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It's lines like this:
“Correction: We will know next year, until then all we have is his 2011 performance, which was bad.”
that make you look like a whiner with tunnel vision. I will give you your due, it seems like you’ve stopped attacking as much, and I’ve noticed, but this dialogue just screams condescending. The fact that he had a bad year is implied, and everyone already knows it.
It’s like you’re trying to rub everyone’s face in it.
You and I defended a lot of the same positions on Garrard over the summer, and I can say for a fact that you were the first one to call someone out for something like this against Garrard. Now you’re the one who’s doing it. It’s okay to have your opinion, but don’t smell your own fart every time you say something you believe to be right.
As Carlos Mencia begging for his life would say, “why don’t you get it maaaaaan”
Gabbert may or may not be "the guy" at QB....
The important thing is he’s GM Gene’s guy and sounds like he’s Khan’s guy as well. I’m looking forward to Gabbert getting a full off season and weapons to throw to, then I’ll judge his performance.
Dalton
Had 1 solid receiver A.J. Green and yet he took the Bengal’s to the playoffs. i would like to get Gabbert going but if it dosen’t work out with him, we’ll have to move on
by TheonlyJagsfaninSD on Jan 17, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
I think the true test of Andy Dalton will be years 2 and 3
I’m of the belief that he is very close to hitting his ceiling. He looked awful in the playoff game.
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Next year will answer everything
if blaine sucks gene/ everybody thatt supported blaine was wrong
if blaines good gene/ everybody that hated blaine was wrong
so just be patient the truth will show itself next year. no need to think about it anymore
Cold Blooded
Not really
Even 2 seasons is not enough to judge a QB one way or the other. Look at guys like Freeman, Bradford and even Sanchez and Flacco.
at some point Flacco needs to start getting a little credit
Yes their defense is incredible, but we’ve seen many teams with great Defensive or offensive units throughout history be undone by the other side of the ball. If San Diego had a decent defense, Dan Fouts would be on the Mt. Rushmore of quarterbacks.
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That's exactly my point
1 or 2 years isn’t enough time to evaluate anyone. Last year people were talking about Freeman in TB like he was part of the next wave of superstar QB’s, along with guys like Sanchez & Flacco. Flacco is decent, he wouldn’t have won many games if he was the Jaguars QB back in 2010 when the defense sucked.
flaccos terrible do you watch his games?
he deserves 0 credit he plays well 3 to 4 games a year if he was on any other team he would be out of the league already. or close to it
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Jan 17, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Way too early to already be revisiting the draft
Gabbert has the tools and with some receivers, more consistent play from the O-Line, and some experience/coaching, he should be a very successful QB at the NFL level.
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
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Im leaning towards him probably being a bust
I think the best he can be is a joe flacco. Skiddish qb’s dont succeed in the nfl. Im hopeful this year can be attributed to bad coaching and he plays well next year. Just not counting on it.
by caneman4 on Jan 17, 2012 10:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
So at best
He will be a QB who has at least one playoff win per year, has yet to have a season where his team finished .500 or worse, and has been to the AFC Championship.
I would be very happy with a Joe Flacco like career for Gabbert
With the way...
our team is built, that’s all we would need from him to become a championship level team.
I'm gonna set my sights higher for Blaine's expectations...
but I don’t expect top 10 QB next year, just noticeable improvement.
look up Steve DeBerg the year before Bill Walsh came versus Walsh's first season in San Fran
Not saying our offensive coaching staff is Walsh, but the point is his main focus was simplifying the game by way of shorter drops and more reads to one side of the field for DeBerg and DeBerg’s completion % went from mid 40s to high 60s. I am really looking forward to next season without a lame duck staff.
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So would i
Im just saying he wont be a top ten qb
by caneman4 on Jan 17, 2012 10:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think you're taking a couple plays (less than 5) per game that are highlighted by the announcers and basing your opinion on theirs
I was at 6 games this year. As it turned out, Monken and Shula were bigger losses than anyone expected. Every single receiver that was on the team in 2010 and stayed this year regressed.
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And what's the biggest difference between 2010 and 2011?
A new QB. I think the two might be related, especially considering a WRs performance is heavily affected by the QB throwing him the ball.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
biggest difference is what you and I did not see and how it translated on to the field.
Given everything that transpired, there is no reason Garrard should have had as much difficulty solidifying his hold on the job. Back injury or not, he was AWFUL all camp. Like I said above, there is no way in hell Wayne Weaver could have sold the fans on this being yet another rebuilding year. Too much at stake.
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It was a rebuilding year. It takes about 4 years and this one was the 3rd.
The problem is that fans had already pretty much given up on Del Rio, and if he wanted to stick around, he needed to deliver a playoff run. He talked it up like the team could, but they couldn’t. So now he’s fired and next year if Gabbert develops into a functional QB it would be the year to expect the success to start.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
so the fans got JDR fired?
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Indirectly...
But that’s how it happens in most places. It certainly is a trend here in Jacksonville. Weaver wanted longterm stability at the HC position. Weaver wasn’t just begging to fire anyone who didn’t get the team to the playoffs a la the Raiders’ mess of a front office. Coughlin and Del Rio each lasted around 8 years, and each got the chance to bounce back after tough years before being fired.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
2 indicates trend?
I must have been absent that day in Stats class.
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by Joe Fisher on Jan 17, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough. It's 16 years worth of hiring/firing decisions though.
I gotta figure that counts for something…
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 17, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
when you have the same guy doing the hiring and firing, um. no.
Said it a million times, Weaver’s biggest failing as an owner was he was too patient when it came to the hard decisions and made the “nice” decisions way too early.
He gave JDR and Garrard extensions way too early (should have waited til at least the bye week in 2008 or end of 2008 season to evaluate both.)
Signed off on the assistant coaches extension in 2009 after a 3 game winning streak. The team went 1-5 after that Buffalo win. Kind of paved the way for the entire staff to be lame ducks in 2011.
Signed off on Mike Thomas’ extension way too soon. I would have waited til the offseason. I feel he’s got talent, but does he have hunger anymore? In fact if I was the owner or GM, I might institute a policy that no contract moves are done during the season.
In hindsight here are a few things he should have pulled the trigger on quicker than he did:
He should have fired JDR after 2008
Should have re-evaluated Garrard after 2008 season.
Should have allowed blackouts once corporate sponsors went away
Stripped personnel authority from Coughlin after 2001 season
I know that it’s all hindsight, but Weaver in essence was guilty of the same things JDR was, primarily he was too nice coming in.
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by re-evaluate, I mean not give him the extension after the 2007 playoffs
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Take away...
the back issue and I think Garrard, as bad as he was all camp and preseason and I still think he would’ve had a better season than what Blaine had. At the same time, I’m glad things happened the way they did because I think it was better for Blaine to get in there and get the experience. I don’t believe that his confidence was affected in the least and I think he’ll take his poor performance and use it as motivation to work harder this offseason than he would have should he sat on the bench.
we will never know the answer to that
A case could be made that he would have suffered a season ending injury behind that line and with the receivers collectively regressing. Man did they swing and miss on Jason Hill. I bought in too, I admit.
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If that was the case...
then Blaine should’ve been injured too if were going to make a case for that. But you’re right in saying that we’ll never know the answer to what would’ve happened if Garrard would’ve started last year.
not necessarily
David likes to tuck it and run when the pocket breaks down and his guys are covered. Blaine probably sacked himself a number of times, but he seldom tucked it and ran.
Here’s a question for you. Strictly a hypothetical question not a trap or one that I know the answer to.
What would you have thought if Dirk scrapped his entire offense ala McCoy at Denver and geared it striclty toward Gabbert’s strengths? All shotgun all the time. If they did that would we have any better of a barometer of Gabbert?
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garrard led a much better offense last year
with the excact same pieces. i can answer the question. we would have been better lol
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Jan 17, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
exact same pieces?
No Manuwai or Britton.
No Mike Sims Walker.
New Receivers coach.
New quarterbacks coach.
No offseason, so there was no NFL level barometer of any player’s rehab and workout schedules. This includes DG9 as he looked a bit paunchy in camp. Something was not right with him and it wasn’t the hand.
Down years from franchise tight end (Lewis) and a receiver who seemingly lost his hunger once he got a pay day(Mike Thomas)
Down year from back up tight end who ended up on IR (Zach Miller)
Down year from receiver who showed enough to warrant a contract only to get cut during the season (Jason Hill)
There are a lot of things that could have been in place or even 95% of what they were in 2010 but were not that could have helped the kid.
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ok britton played in 7 games
he played in 4 this year so thats only a three game difference
zach miller had 20 catches last year for 200 yards (not that big of a loss)
msw was the same receiver that he was last year
jason hill is the same receiver he was last year
only difference is who was throwing to him
and you could argue that mike thomas and Lewis had such strong years last year because they had david throwing to them
coaches and offseason are to me more valid points along with manuwai even though manuwai was not a good pass blocker
Garrard set the franchise record for TDs with something very similar to what blaine had so yes the offense would have been BETTER with david no questions asked
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Jan 18, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Britton played 4 games or was active for 4 games?
It was very obvious he was not close to full strength. Hell, he made Austen Lane look like an All Pro. Fooled me too.
MSW, obviously you don’t appreciate that he was the only receiver not afraid to go up the middle. How many of our routes were at or outside the numbers? We lost that when they decided to not bring him back after the 2010 season.
While Manuwai was not the best pass blocker, he gave the O line stability. Meester and Monroe could focus on their job because Manuwai did his.
I just do not recall our guys breaking off routes in the past as much as they did this year.
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Answer to your question.
I’d say so. But he would’ve had to take it a step further and make most of the plays designed to be one or two read type plays, which I was under the assumption was the type of offense he played under in college.
As far as what you said about David, you’re right, he would’ve subjected himself to more punishment because of his style of play and because of some of the option type plays Dirk began to use in 2010 with him.
Garrard
was horrible in the 2010 pre season too, and by game one he had gotten his act together. Keep in mind that first team OL was horrible. I mean, it was horrendous. Forget a bad OL where sometimes a QB gets hit just after his last step of his drop, he was getting hit on his 4th step of a 5 step drop.
16 touchdowns
is nothing for a QB in college..
Look, Blaine Gabbert was over rated which is why ultimately 5 teams that needed QB’s in the draft either drafted a different QB or avoided him completely
by bdk790 on Jan 17, 2012 1:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You're saying that...
as if all teams use the same metric system to grade the prospects and as if Gene used the media to rate Blaine. Gene picked Blaine because he thought he had the potential to become a franchise QB and for no other reason. We’ll see if that’s true or not but the number of TD’s he threw his last season in college shouldn’t be the final indicator of what he’ll do as a pro.
if gene thought so highly of him
why didnt he interview him before he was selected? that to me seems like something you would do if you think someones a franchise qb. just to make sure
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Jan 17, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
*Correction.
That first didn’t should not be there.
http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/Content/QB_College-QB-Vers1.0_2-17-2011.htm
According to that website,
Guys like Tony Pike, Ryan Leaf and Brian Brohm are ahead of Gabbert.
Guys like Tony Romo and Jay Cutler are behind Gabbert.
So take that stat they came up with for what it is worth
Just saw an article
On football outsiders saying gabbert had the 5th worst season since stats have been kept. He was bad but fifth? What do u guys think?
by caneman4 on Jan 17, 2012 6:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd believe that.
I’m not trying to be a dick about it, but he really was REALLY bad.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 18, 2012 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
it's all so frikkin simple, isn't it?
All him. Disregard all of the moving parts around him.
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You want me to dissect the talent around Gabbert?
Gabbert had a stud RB in MJD but there was no backup plan. Deji was worthless.
He spent the first half of the season missing receivers badly because of the serious flaws in his accuracy. He didn’t step into throws. It didn’t help that his O-line was down a RT and starting a rookie DII guard. He had good help at LT, C, and RG tho, and all of the line was effective run blocking.
Marcedes’ dropsies returned. He had that problem his first few years in the league too. He’s still an asset in the passing game when used effectively, and is valuable as a blocker also.
Gabbert didn’t have much help at WR. That said, lots of the year was played against 8 and 9 in the box. Against single coverage, guys will be open. So why weren’t we testing the ball down the field?
Dillard has reliable hands and runs short/intermediate routes well. So did Mike Thomas last year. Shorts disappointed in his first year, but he and West both flashed. It’s not like I’m expecting big things from them, but they’re not the waste of space they’re being made out to be.
That’s what Gabbert was working with. I understand that. Now with that said, I’m not surprised it was called the 5th worst season since stats have been kept by football outsiders, because he looked worse than I was expecting and I was expecting him to struggle.
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by Brian Levenson on Jan 18, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Brian, guys were seldom open. Hell most couldn't power past the chuck.
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