Jerry Sullivan Has His Work Cut Out For Him
by Alfie Crow on Feb 11, 2012 3:28 PM EST
in Jacksonville Jaguars News
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PrintNew Jacksonville Jaguars wide receivers coach Jerry Sullivan will have his work cut out for him when he begins working with the Jaguars wide receiver group. He'll be working with a group that didn't produce a single player with over 500 receiving yards on the season. The team is expected to add some players in free agency and potentially the draft, but for the hold overs there will be a lot of work to be done.
"That's one group (wide receivers) we have to get some improvement out of," Jaguars offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski said on Jaguars This Week. "I know Jerry Sullivan will work some wonders with some of those guys, and if we do bring in some new talent - whether it's through the draft or free agency - I think we can get that group up to speed to where it will help our quarterback." Sullivan is renowned in league circles for his ability coaching wide receivers and was even a personal target for Arizona Cardinals wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald, who requested to his head coach the team hire Sullivan.
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Gene Smith had better swallow some pride and cut his losses. I know he thinks keeping almost all his draft picks around makes him look better than he really is but he’d better think long and hard before making a choice. Khan isn’t a push over like Weaver must have been and he’ll expect a quicker build than Wayne ever did. With the slight exception on Thomas, Gene hasn’t produced one contribute to the receiver’s core in 3 years. It’s quite pathetic.
I need my meds.
Yea but
How much stock has he put in the position? two 4th round, 1 5th round, 1 7th round selections. And waiver wire guys. He was too busy fixing everything else on the team. Now he has created so much depth that he can go all out for WR now. Free agent WR classes were weak leading up to this year.
by childintime12 on Feb 11, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
here's where I have an issue with Gene
Most other teams seem to rebuild AND SUSTAIN on the fly. Pittsburgh, NE, Balto, NOLA, etc. have been good at staying at or near the top for 5 or more years. Baltimore has done it without an elite quarterback.
It’s not as if Gene inherited an expansion roster, he blew it up to make it one.
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There are not any etc.
Every team you mentioned either had a very good QB or as is the case with Baltimore, a solid one with a stout defense. I think we’re well on our way to becoming one of the better teams in the league and I say this with full confidence.
If the team he inherited wasn’t an expansion team, then how come every player he cut has went on to do next to nothing elsewhere? I said before and I’ll say it again, he cut the right players and kept the right ones. Other than the two it’s already happened too (Hart and McGee) is there any player you think Gene has drafted, that if cut, wouldn’t get picked up by another team? Hell, if Underwood, a 7th round pick of Gene’s can get picked up by the Patriots, then I don’t see how any of his other picks couldn’t find a home on another team.
You cannot rebuild and sustain at the same time
if your team is void of talent. You have to get guys in first. We’re in year four of that process. It’s when most players start hitting their stride. Gene’s draft picks should start living up to their true potential about now. Also consider team depth, how rotational and backups perform. And, it’s not just about the draft. We saw that least year on defense.
Section 442, RIP
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by unhipcat on Feb 13, 2012 8:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The only thing that will make Gene Smith look good
is a winning team.
Thinking that he’s keeping “His guys” so he looks better is just foolish. Besides, any guy he releases has to be replaced with another one of “His guys”.
There's only two receivers
that I’d have on the roster from last season. Mike Thomas and Cecil Shorts. Thomas is a good slot/3rd reciever. Shorts b/c you don’t know what you got after this ridiculous bad offense last season. Everyone else, thanks but no thanks. It’s time for this organization to get serious and attempt to resemble an NFL offense.
by nationalmediacansuckit on Feb 11, 2012 3:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I agree except
Robiskie and Price may break out next season. I think we seen what Dillard and West had and it wasnt much.
by childintime12 on Feb 11, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
You kno
breakout as a 4th receiver. haha
by childintime12 on Feb 11, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
Good slot/3rd WR based on what?!
This guy can’t beat one on one matchups with linebackers, slot or not.
if they get a coach who can teach route discipline, you never know.
But, if it don’t work, then throw him as out return man like Dante Hall.
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Dillard?
sure he was injured for the first 2 years, but he has not shown himself to be bad. I actually really like what he could bring to this team if better talent is brought in.
I think a #1 is needed and a #2 guy is needed. After that, I would be comfortable letting every other WR spot be open competitions among the guys the Jaguars have. Is a WR group of say Brian Quick, Dwayne Bowe, Mike Thomas, Cecil SHorts and Jarrett Dllard a bad group of WRs? not at all.
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He was resigned...
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by rhettchrystal on Feb 11, 2012 4:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gene made his job hard!!!!
Get rid of that practice squad and maybe just maybe the WR coach job will be that much easier.
The comments...
here are getting worse and worse. I’d love for one of you people who talk down on Gene for the receiver group to go over the last three offseason periods and offer an alternative plan that Gene could’ve taken to make the group better without making the team as a whole worse.
He could have done something, instead of rolling into the season with the group he did.
Asking for alternatives is just asking for revisionism that’s just going to make Gene Smith look really, really bad. Like, drafting D’Anthony Smith instead of Eric Decker, or Mike Williams, or Jimmy Graham. He could have signed someone like Malcolm Floyd or James Jones, for cheap I might add given what they re-signed for, to show he was attempting to do something. He wound up scrambling to re-sign a guy he deemed not good enough to bring back and picking up every waived receiver that hit the market.
Fact of the matter is: Gene Smith thought the group the team entered the season with was good enough and he was happy with it. That was a massive miscalculation and he deserves all the heat he’s getting for it.
agreed
What he did with the receiving corps is exactly what he did with the secondary in 2010. I trust he fixes it the same way (free agency) at which point his drafting acumen or lack of it must come into play.
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Exactly. After FA is over,
if this team is improved then what can we really say about Gene? That he knows how to build two good starting units through FA and how to add depth through the draft? Where is our star players at from the Gene era? We still ride the coattails of the guys from the old regimes. MJD, Lewis, Mathis, D. Smith etc. Well we are entering year 4 of his regime and it is sh!t or get off the pot time. Khan owes Gene nothing.
The going sentiment is you can't judge a draft class until after year 3.
I have the feeling that Monroe is very close to taking that next step of top tackles. Maybe not Boselli, but very good. Pot Roast too.
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you're a little late in your reply
I was replying to JagSoldier about year 4 of the regime.
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They were good enough
For a vet like Garrard just not a rookie like Gabbert. If Garrard played Hill would still be on the team and we wouldnt be as down on those guys. Experience at QB can make any receivers look decent. Now that their developing Gabbert, they have to bring someone in who can help him out. When hes in his 8th year its unlikely he will need top notch guys, if hes any good by then.
by childintime12 on Feb 11, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
I don't recall the receivers giving up on routes as much
Bear in mind that Todd Monken left right before the season, as we had a quality control guy as a key position coach. Also, we had a quarterbacks coach who had not held that position at the NFL level prior to Jax. All 1 year deals.
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He was happy with it?
You actually believe that? I honestly believe he only thought the group could find just enough success to keep the team competitive with Garrard as the QB, not Gabbert. I think if he had anticipated the Garrard fiasco, he would’ve put much more emphasis on the position.
As far as the players he could’ve drafted instead of D’Anthony, let’s look a little deeper. Decker was selected 13 picks later and only had 44 catches for 612 yards last year, so I’m not sure he would’ve been much of an improvement. Graham was 21 picks later and I doubt he would’ve been able to be as successful here as he was with the Saints. And Williams was 27 picks later and had a season that closely resembled MSW 2010 season with 65 receptions for 771 yards and 3 TD’s. That was with Freeman at QB and similar to Graham, I doubt he’d been able to duplicate that here. Taking this back to D’Anthony, I’m not sure any of those players would’ve had as much of an impact as a healthy Smith would’ve had.
Thanks though for at least giving me some names he could’ve pursued via free agency.
After further consideration...
Decker, Graham and Williams probably would’ve been able to have more of an impact than Smith because they probably would’ve been starters, therefore got more playing time. Except for Graham because I doubt he would’ve took the starting position from Lewis.
If he wasn’t actually happy with it, why did he do absolutely nothing until it was way too late?
I understand GM’s, coaches lie. Believe me. They also misevaluate, which is obviously what they did in this situation. If they weren’t happy with the situation as you imply, and still did abosolutely nothing… that’s even worse.
Even if Garrard were here, the passing game would have been woeful, just like it was in 2010. Garrard threw a lot of touchdowns, but the passing game in 2010 was still BAD and ranked in the bottoms of the league.
You're right.
The passing game from ‘10 wasn’t all that good but it was good enough to keep us competitive when coupled with our rushing attack. And again, you’re right, it was a misevaluation on Gene’s part. I really do believe that was because of the ‘10 season though. I figure he thought if he could just fix the defense and have the same offense of the ’10 season, we’d be able to compete for the playoffs. Obviously, it didn’t turn out that way and things happened as they did.
Why didn’t he do anything is a question I don’t have an answer for. But as you and Joe have indicated, there wasn’t a whole lot he could’ve done. And one more time, you’re right, he should’ve tried to do something. I’m sure he’ll take every opportunity to make up for his error in judgment this offseason though.
If I recall correctly, last year was a very short, out of sequence FA period
Gene focused on the team’s biggest issue and fixed it.
Section 442, RIP
"You think you know, but you don't know."
by unhipcat on Feb 13, 2012 9:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And the patriots and every other team missed on Brady for five rounds
if you’re comparing who was drafted before whom.
32 teams missed on MoJo.
The fact is Gene didn’t get Floyd or Jones or whomever. Maybe he was more focused on the disaster on the defensive side of the ball. By all indications, upgrade the receiver position this year. Let’s see how that goes before we talk about giving him his walking papers.
Section 442, RIP
"You think you know, but you don't know."
by unhipcat on Feb 13, 2012 9:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
STOP DOING THE SAME THING EVERY YEAR AT WR POSITION.
Gene may not get so much heat if he stop drafting garbage WR’s every year. Mike Thomas…….Mike Thomas 18 million. Six of that was automatic money right???? He could have gave Fred that cheese for the numbers Mike put up. LOL
2 easy moves and not that expensive
Sign Malcolm Floyd. And sign Doug Baldwin as a UDFA.
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He's right...
about Floyd. He was a FA last year and signed a 2 year deal with the Chargers, the team that he’s been with his entire career. He had 43 receptions for 856 yards and 5 TD’s last year, so to answer my own question below, he could’ve very well been able to make a difference. He’s 30 years old but he still wouldn’t have been a bad player to pursue.
It appears I'm still confused...
I didn’t read the original comment Joe was reponding to. Then I doubled down and mixed Malcolm and Michael Floyd. Oh boy, I need coffee!
Thanks...
for suggesting some names. Since you and Alf both said Malcom Floyd, would he have been that much of a difference maker to not make the WR group not look so bad? Same goes for Baldwin.
tough to tell
Floyd gets open, but when you have Rivers throwing to you, it’s a bit easier. Defenses respect him. Now Baldwin, (in the interest of full disclosure, he went to my high school, so I’ve kept tabs on him for a while) I think he would have been solid here. He was catching passes from T-Jack. He also played wideout at Stanford and is one of those kids you just gotta put on the field. I think he’d have been a pleasant surprise here.
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Makes you wonder if the WR issue last year was coaching...
or the players. With Jerry’s reputation as an excellent WR coach, we’ll get a better idea.
Pleny of people on here have said it
the receivers we started last year at times probably wouldn’t have even been backups on other teams. Chastin West? Come on.
Up and down
I know this is probably going to get everyone riled up on here, but I’m sick of everyone ragging on Mike Thomas.
The guy had a down year, yes, but he’s a 4th round pick who the staff tried to squeeze into a #1 receiver role. He obviously wasn’t ready for it. With the offseason where he was working out on his own, he may have had some conditioning issues. If someone tells you you’re going to be a #1 or #2 receiver on the outside, you’re going to try to get bigger, stronger, more physical. Previously, he was a slot receiver, and was expected to be shifty and fast as a primary skill.
Do any of you play a sport? I’m talking about a sport outside of high school or college, when you’re still growing. If you do, you know that you have good years and bad years. I train as an amateur cyclist, and I’ve been racing for 5 years now. I started out big and powerful, but I was too heavy to go up the hills fast. The next year, I lost some weight, and I went up hills faster, but I lost some top speed. The year after that, I gained some weight back and had a great year, because I was more balanced.
What I’m trying to say is that sometimes you can train too much of one particular thing, and it affects other parts of your game. I don’t know this happened with Mike Thomas, but I think he’ll be much better after an offseason of training for speed and quickness, and getting back into that shifty slot role. In general, people don’t just start sucking for no reason after they’ve shown some good potential.
the contract negates his draft position
When a guy regresses seemingly immediately after signing a new deal, he deserves every bit of criticism he has coming his way. I would say the vitriol that Underwood received while here was ridiculous.
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Ok, take his draft position out of the argument. The fact remains that he’s a 5’9" “undersized” guy who seemingly had great hands before this season. He had pretty good production in the slot playing alongside some relatively mediocre other receivers. He started to seem like a go-to guy for Garrard whenever we needed a play, and he added value as a decent punt returner.
The difficult part of the equation is trying to figure out if he “got paid” and quit trying, or if he just had some bad training/offseason work. We should be able to figure that out this year. If he doesn’t show improvement in TC or before, he won’t be around for very long. If they see him quitting on routes that they’ve seen him run correctly in TC, he’ll be gone.
Underwood I see as someone who was cut because he was never going to be able to develop into a useful tool in this offense. They gave him a chance to fix his hands, and he seemingly could never pull it together for long enough for anyone to be confident in him.
If Mike Thomas had had just a down year, I think we could agree.
Over training doesn’t make you quit and give up on routes. Over training doesn’t make you run really sloppy routes and looking like you don’t care immediately after you sign a new contract.
Mike Thomas never really showed “good potential”. People have overrated him since the get-go. He benefited from having another player draw coverages off him and catching a ton of short passes.
I’m not saying he’s a great receiving talent, I’m just saying that he’ll look better next year when he’s back in the role that he’s comfortable in. If he needs to have guys drawing coverage, that’s fine, but put him in a position to succeed. Don’t try putting him into a role that he’s not built for.
This hiring will certainly show things about two people, Sullivan and Smith
if the receiver group looks good, then the guy will have shown that he really knows how to coach.
If that group includes guys already on the team, it will show Gene really does have an eye for talent; it just took a little experience and someone who knows what he’s doing to bring it out.
Section 442, RIP
"You think you know, but you don't know."
I really think running the proper routes will do wonders for the receivers and quarterback
All of the offensive coaches (aside from Heck) are coming in together. Full offseason.
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I think it's time for people
to quit mentioning what round M Thomas was drafted in. He has recently resigned a big contract and should be judged by that.
I actully like
MikeThomas. He is not a number one WR but we all knew that. But when you are the veteran of that squad you have to play better.
Food for thought,
1. Last years coaching staff spent the entire offseason game planning around Garrard, not a rookie QB.
2. As interim HC, Mel Tuckers first official act was to fire the WRs coach.
3. Our new “Offense-minded” coaches may see hidden potential in some of the current player.
1. – they had no idea what they were getting when the lockout ended and camps opened. No one foresaw Manuwai being so out of shape, Britton getting hurt and useless (I still think he injured himself during the lockout. Lifting without a belt? Come on! Weightlifting 101) or Garrard’s state of mind.
2 – was there a reason to keep him?
3 – Our new staff may just blow up the receiving corps. Then what?
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My point was ...
1.The “game plan” was designed around Garrard, NOT Britton OR Manuwi! It didn’t change when Gabbert was thrown to wolves!
2.Why did it take so long to dump him?!
3.WR’s aren’t the ONLY offensive players!
Another way to look at it is
The past two seasons have been a helter-skelter exercise in make shift, hole patching, job protecting ineptability. You had a group of coaches on the hot seat trying to fix an offense that was poorly planned, poorly designed and pathetically coached. You had a head coach that was pressured by the owner to win or else. The franchise was suffering in ticket sales, corporate support and had a national media nipping at its ass on a constant basis. The fan base that was established was fed up and voicing complaints. With the medium available this day and age don’t think social media networks aren’t followed by these teams and heard by management. Under these circumstances it was an impossible situation and it showed. The emphasis wasn’t on improvement, it was on survival!
Now this team has a new owner. A man that brings a different sense of business to the operation. A breath of fresh air and an open agenda for all to see. New hope is the operative word and the fans feel recharged. An all new coaching staff is brought in as well as a real NFL style offense. Real NFL coaches, with NFL knowledge, real NFL plays, different formations and personnel packages, plays designed to establish success and not just prevent losing too badly.
My point being, l believe this team has and has had some great talent over the past 9 years under the JDR regime. What hasn’t remained consistent has been the continuity of the organization and most of all the staff. If you think its been tough on us fans, its had to have been frustrating and endless to these players.
Yes, coaches give them the roles and its up to the athlete to execute them. The problem with that is its human nature to give up when it repeatedly fails. At some point you just go through the motion and lose interest.
I think we all will be pleasantly suprised at the performances of some of these players under coaches they know have the answers and are able to adjust. There will be less failures with the scheme for sure and with the experience of this staff. Before we predict who will fail, we should look at what we have and what they are capable of with the right instruction and role! It works for other teams, they seem to get the most out of their players. Have you ever wondered why?
by TCJagsFan on Feb 12, 2012 11:11 AM EST via mobile reply actions
"Before we predict who will fail, we should look at what we have and what they are capable of with the right instruction and role!"
I agree with this whole heartedly. All of our guys are young and have room for improvment if put in an enviroment for that improvment to take place. They weren’t allowed that and the results spoke for themselves. It’s almost certain we’ll add players to the position but maybe the group of Thomas, West, Dillard, Shorts, Price and Robiskie isn’t as bad as most think. At the same time, maybe it is. But who really knows? Either way, we’ll find out.
We really need to stop overvaluing our own players and call them what they are when they’re not good.
I, personally...
don’t like to get in the habit of over or underevaluing players. I prefer to let things unfold as they will and call it how I see it. So I have no opinion of Price, Robiskie and Shorts because I didn’t see enough to say one way or the other. But what I seen from Dillard and West is room for improvement. Not sure what to say about Thomas at this point.
I have to disagree with you Alfie ...
I think we need to stop “underevaluating” SOME of our players. Even better, let’s let competent coaching evaluate them.
The fact is, these guys are professionals and should have the athletic ability to survive or even excel at this level. However, the environment in that locker room for the past 3 years has been one of instability, mistrust, division and blame. The old coaching staff lost control of these players when they failed to adjust and rethink some of the decisions made in interest to keep their jobs. More emphasis was placed on desperate attempts to keep the alligators off than properly evaluating and assessing the talent of their players. There has been an air of belligerance and incompetence that has had a profound effect on a great deal of good player keeping them from being average much less great for a long time. When told you suck over and over again, you begin to believe it, its human nature.
I believe that there are very few players on this roster that other teams/coaches would like to have a shot at developing. I say let’s find them and do this ourselves. Let’s see what they can do in a professional environment with professional coaches.
by TCJagsFan on Feb 12, 2012 3:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
are you serious?
when told you suck after it is proven you suck, well…
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Todd Monken was a competent coach. Dirk Koetter was a competent coordinator. David Shula was a competent quarterback's coach
There are quite a few reasons why the receiving corps struggled last year. These guys apparently had no feelings of remorse when cashing their game checks.
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competent? You say that Dirk Koetter is competent?
That’s funny Joe. How in the world can you say this dude is competent when he obviously wasn’t. Hell he wasn’t even qualified. He had some very limited success at ASU and … Humm, ughh … that’s about it! He ran a west coast spread offense with a book of gimmick plays.
Let’s see, for the past 4 years our offense consisted of 6 basic plays. A combination of dive plays, MJD traps (off tackle) a couple of screen plays in variation and quick slants. Even a rank amature could look at his formation and call the play before the snap. Defenses were putting as many as 9 in the box (8 most every play) and dareing him to throw the ball. We got neat by friggin Cleveland when they placed their defensive backfield 7-10 yards from the ball and never moved. This was unimaginative, vanilla, predictable offense and that’s being objective. He insisted on predominantly running the football when the league has changed the rules to make it a passing game.
You’ll follow up by telling me, “He didn’t throw the ball because he didn’t have the players!” Bullshit dude, he NEVER put his players in the position to succeed! He tossed the kid Gabbert out there with 6 basic plays that everyone in the universe knew were coming and hoped he could make a play. When he was getting his ass handed to him he Absolutely REFUSED to adjust to what the defense was doing! If it don’t work fix it, adjust, try something different! New England almost won the Super Bowl with a simplistic short passing game and a receiving corp of two TIGHT ENDS! Competent coaching and getting the best out of what they have.
I don’t even know why I am arguing this point at the stage of the game. Koetter is gone FINALLY! My point remains, not all of our rosteted players are crap. They are young, they do have potential and they deserve to be evaluated and coached by real NFL coaches!
by TCJagsFan on Feb 12, 2012 6:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dirk Koetter had very limited success at ASU? His offenses set Pac-10 records. He was renowned for his offenses, he just didn’t win and didn’t recruit well because he’s not a college coach.
His offense in Jacksonville his first season was the most productive offense in franchise history. His offense with David Garrard at QB set the franchise record for passing touchdowns.
You might want to go do your research on Dirk Koetter before complaining that we weren’t the Green Bay Packers with the crap we’ve had at QB/WR the past five years.
"He didn’t throw the ball because he didn’t have the players!"
If you don’t believe that, then there isn’t too much you could have to say about Koetter that could have a basis in being the truth. You might want to go back and look at the receiving corps we had during his tenure.
"He didn’t throw the ball because he didn’t have the players!"
If you don’t believe that, then there isn’t too much you could have to say about Koetter that could have a basis in being the truth. You might want to go back and look at the receiving corps we had during his tenure.
Koetter is also the guy who built Boise State
Just watch Atlanta next year. There’s probably a story that has not been told, but it seemed very apparent that Koetter was not happy with JDR and Gene Smith. I would be too if I was forced to be the #2 guy on a sinking ship.
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I’ll bite: Who have I “undervalued” that has shown to actually be a good player?
I’ll wait on this one.
Bear in mind, I actually know a lot that went on. Some of what you’re saying is true to an extent, but that’s not the reason people like Mike Thomas were awful in 2011.
Derek Cox
before the Ravens game this year.
have you seen many Jags over the past 4 years who have gone on and done BETTER at their next stop?
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Other than Weatherford and maybe Reggie Nelson(I honestly do not know he he did in Cincy) I cannot.
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the guy who Gabbert burned in the Cincy game?
I like Reggie, but he still has not learned the pro game. He doesn’t have the cerebral part of the game figured out yet. Not saying he’s dumb or anything like that, but he’s fast getting to an age where his athleticism is diminishing and he needs to utilize his football savvy.
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I said I honestly had no clue how he did
I actually am not so sure he has been as bad as a whole for Cincy.
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
by Jagsrok9008 on Feb 13, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Why do people blame Keoetter for this teams failures.
I dare anyone to name one player on this roster over the last 5 years who was considered a top notch to elite player for the offense that could have performed in Dirks system, ( someone not named MJD). Just name one player please. It wasn’t Garrard or any WR, or TE. So how is the failures of the team his fault? He doesn’t do the scouting or the signings. A Vanilla offense is the result of vanilla players.
Closest player...
you didn’t mention is Marcedes Lewis and he only had one elite type year, so I’m not sure if he even counts.
I get what you're saying..
and I agree but he could’ve done much worse than Garrard as he was the QB that helped Lewis earn his first Pro Bowl appearance.
Zero
Jags have gone on to have success anywhere else if my mind serves me correct. This organization has been a joke for 11-12 years and Weaver allowed this dysfunction to happen year after year. No QB drafted since 2003 (Leftwich) without a true franchise QB in place. Ridiculous.
by nationalmediacansuckit on Feb 12, 2012 8:29 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Technically...
won’t it still be Gene’s regime? Since he’s the one still in control of the personnel.
someone has to sign the checks.
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I don't think you took me seriously. If you want it unbanned, email an admin. But, for now, your Stampede Blue privileges are done.
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