Can Quinton Coples Be The Next Jason Pierre-Paul?
by Alfie Crow on Feb 14, 2012 3:00 PM EST
in 2012 NFL Draft
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PrintThe Jacksonville Jaguars will be looking for a defensive end to bolster their pass rush either in free agency or in the NFL draft. One player in particular who could fit the Jaguars in the draft is North Carolina defensive end Quinton Coples, who's often mocked to the Jaguars at at seventh overall. Coples has drawn a lot of praise and a lot of criticism, even having some people compare him to New York Giants defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul because of his overall potential. Coples isn't as raw as Pierre-Paul was coming out of college, but there are some flaws in his game that will need to be corrected at the next level to unlock that potential.
Luckily, Coples flaws are something that's coachable and can be corrected by drilling it. So what's his biggest flaw? Football Guys Jene Bramel explains after the jump.
While he flashed dominant pass rushing skills in the pit during Senior Bowl practices, it will be critical for Coples to maintain that pad level to achieve success as a rusher in the NFL. The swim move he prizes will have little chance if he stands up and invites an NFL offensive lineman into his chest. Proper pad level will also help him achieve a better lean and angle to flatten his edge rush move. When he gets too tall off the ball, he winds up too far up field.
Inconsistent pad level seemed to be an issue for Coples during his tenure at North Carolina, but if he can work at it and become consistent at the NFL level, he should turn into a dominant defensive end. He's got everything else that you can't coach.
I highly suggest reading the rest of Bramel's article here.
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They passed on JPP
I wager they won’t do it again if they think he can be that good.
by KillJag on Feb 14, 2012 3:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Coples could be a great player in the league, but he doesn’t have the same concerns JPP did coming out of college. JPP’s main concern out of USF was that he was so raw and underdeveloped. Coples’ main concern is his motor and motivation concerns.
Follow me on twitter: @Kevin_Hine
Those actually aren’t concerns. Just draftnik hype concerns.
by Alfie Crow on Feb 14, 2012 3:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They’re legitimate Coples for Coples after watching his entire Senior year. There were other circumstances like the atmosphere at UNC and the position he was playing, but he looked like he mailed it in at times this past year at UNC.
JPP’s concerns were more of the draftnik variety, and he had to land in the right situation to develop him — and New York was just the spot.
Follow me on twitter: @Kevin_Hine
I know either Vic or oehser said they spoke to scouts who said it was a concern.
I can’t remember which one it was but I’m sure I remember one of them saying that the “playing not to get hurt”/ motivation issues were concerns to scouts that they had spoken to.
by grues0809 on Feb 14, 2012 3:44 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
when you're on a football team you're supposed to be going 100% to help your team win.
Your team winning is your motivation. If you’re playing “not to get hurt” it implies you’re playing with an alternative and/or additional motive other than giving 100% for your team’s win. They go hand in hand.
by grues0809 on Feb 14, 2012 4:04 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
No, they don’t go hand in hand. At all. They’re entirely different things.
It has absolutely nothing to do with “motivation”.
They're not entirely different things; they do go hand in hand.
But alright.
by grues0809 on Feb 14, 2012 4:08 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I kinda agree with grues on this one Alfie...but w/e....
Just my two cents….
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
by T.Holmes on Feb 14, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm all for drafting him,
if Cailborne doesn’t fall and they decide against picking Jeffery. Pad level is teachable as long as he is willing. I have heard concerns about speed as well, is that just hype or is it a real issue?
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Feb 14, 2012 3:13 PM EST reply actions
2nd round would be an interesting thought
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
The Problem with our Wide recievers is that they're never wide open and they have trouble receiving the ball...
by TheTealDeal on Feb 14, 2012 3:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
The Problem with our Wide recievers is that they're never wide open and they have trouble receiving the ball...
by TheTealDeal on Feb 16, 2012 7:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That is your opinion
and I respect that you have it
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Feb 14, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Over the last 2 seasons I've seen Joe Cullen do some great work
developing players with limited to decent talent at the DE position. I have a feeling that Cullen could coach Coples into a Pro Bowl caliber player and fix any flaws he does have.
I always get tired of hearing about guys being the "next" whomever...
If we draft him, I just hope he’s the best Quinton Coples he can be.
Fidelis Ad Mortem
or..
he could be the next derrick harvey..ill pass. mincey, roth and a healthy chick, lane and kampman will do just fine. our d-line is highly under-rated. we are hurting on offense way too much to not address it in the first round. really, i dont see any player worth taking at 7 if blackmon is gone. maybe kirpatrick? but then again i like jenkins more than him(probably cuz im a gator fan)
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 3:23 PM EST reply actions
how many acc tackles..
are projected in the first or second round anyway?
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 3:24 PM EST reply actions
maybe 4 o-linemen being invited to the draft from the whole acc indicates that his competition level in college makes him stand out to the point of an illusion. same thing happens with big time players from small schools (lane, kareem)
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
There’s only 4 offensive lineman invited to the draft from the ACC?
Not going to touch that. Just going to leave it there. Someone else can take this softball.
JPP was from South Florida in the Big East conference. When he was drafted in 2010 only 1 offensive lineman from the Big East was taken in the first three rounds. Obviously this means JPP is going to be terrible….
very valid point
Strength of competition can be severely overused. The list goes on and on of players that came from smaller/“weaker” schools and still shined in the pro’s
by grues0809 on Feb 14, 2012 3:50 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I’m not even talking about that. The logic you’re trying to use is absolutely atrocious and just flat out wrong.
He played against guys like Seantrel Henderson, Brandon Washington, and Oday Aboushi. He also played against guys like Orlando Franklin, Rodney Hudson, Anthony Castonzo, etc during his tenure at UNC.
To be honest I was really concerned of what I heard of him from "draftniks"
But I’ve been sold, hard, since then of other things I’ve heard. I really like the idea of him as our selection in the 1st. People say he’s got “work to do”, but honestly, what player, especially a rookie, doesn’t? If he absolutely killed it his senior season he’d almost be certain to be a Top 5 pick and likely out of our reach. But lo and behold he has some “concerns” and what was considered a disappointing senior season and its pushing his stock to being possibly a Mid 1st Round pick, and maybe, into our laps. Idk whats going to happen come draft day, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s the selection (unless some one like Clairborne falls to us)
by Jags85 on Feb 14, 2012 3:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
no him being a lazy F*** is his problem
he only flashed against a future 3rd round guard in the senior bowl in the actual GAME. idc what a guy does on one on ones. austen lane was a beast in individuals but was less than stellar in the game. same with cople everything points to him being great but hes not!!
Cold Blooded
hes either lazy
or a non competitior. i think its more of the latter than the former. If you want to win you arent going to take a year off
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
it is
but hes still not a competitor. a true competitor would never take a year off. anybody who loves the game wouldnt. and last time i checked nfl was just a big competition
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Again, how do you get 7.5 takes "taking the year off"?
I swear with some of you, you just fish for reasons to write off a player no matter how ridiculous it comes off. It’s awesome.
I mean, why’d he decide to take the year off? Just because, right? He just suddenly decided “Hey, I’m going to be lazy the year before I go into the NFL.”
by Alfie Crow on Feb 14, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point.
If he didn’t give a crap and still got 7.5 sacks, we can pencil him in for at least twice that when he’s getting paid for it!
Fidelis Ad Mortem
We have players who give 200%
And get only 4 or sacks.
Just think about 7.5 sacks at 50% trying
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
The Problem with our Wide recievers is that they're never wide open and they have trouble receiving the ball...
by TheTealDeal on Feb 14, 2012 4:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
against college level talent
derrick harvey had 8 his senior year in college, 7.5 isnt that impressive
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
but under the premise Coples was not trying....
Harvey was trying and got 8 sacks. An apparently unmotivated Coples got 7.5.
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
And why will a big paycheck
motivate him ? Quite often it’s the opposite that occurs.
the paycheck won't be all the big
and he should therefore be motivated to get that big paycheck in his first go through in free agency
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
thats what you reported?
i saw it in one of your comments that he apparently took the year off?
if he didnt take it off then hes just overated. he got 7.5 sacks as the best defensive prospect in the country. something special there….
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
you said it
because thats where i got it from. i didnt just make it up
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
I said that’s what some people thought, weeks ago. I didn’t “report” anything. There is a massive difference in me saying something and a report. Learn what the difference is.
I still don't know.
If it’s written on this site by one of the primary contributors, it’s a report in my eyes.
It depends
If it’s an article, it’s a report
If it’s in the comments, it’s a comment
by JohnnyBiceps on Feb 15, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
and ive said hes overated and sucked from the begininng
he’ll be an above average lineman but his lack of desire will hold him back from being great. he’ll show flashes but he’ll never consistantly be a good pass rusher
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
There is no “lack of desire”. You’re just making assumptions and regurgitating erroneous information.
The guy he came to UNC to play for got fired right before the 2011 season started. If Butch Davis had been fired at the end of 2010, he’d have left then, Why do you think Paige-Moss left to everyone’s surprise? No one wanted to play for the new coach. They were all Butch Davis guys. They went to UNC for him, not the other guy.
If you want to look at someone with a questionable “lack of desire” look at Dwight Jones. He mailed it in during Senior Bowl week. Coples busted ass the whole week. A guy with a “lack of desire” and who’s “lazy” doesn’t bust his ass for a week to dispel that notion.
im going off the games i watched and the highlights ive seen
not off anything else. and the player i saw during those games didnt give 100% ever and a player like coples isnt so physically gitfed that he could get away with 50% in the nfl. he can be a good player but he wont be great unless he has a strong will and i dont think he does from the way he plays and competes
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
How can you tell if a player is giving 100% or not? Is there a magical facial expression? Is it by how flexed their arms are? What determines 100%?
Did Coples have a strong will and did he compete as a junior? He just lucked into double-digit sacks then, too? Man. This guy who’s lazy sure does fall into a a lot of sacks!
come on now
we both know you can tell when a player isnt giving a hundred percent.
and hes is talented enough to get them but a guy like roy williams has lucked into a couple TDs in his career and i doubt anybody would label him as a hard worker
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
How do YOU tell? That’s what I’m asking.
Did he give 100% “ever” his junior year, or not just his senior year?
he gets beat by players that are far in a way obviously less talented
thats how i tell he isnt giving 100 percent because he shouldnt be getting absolutely destroyed by Mike Adams in the senior bowl. a guy with his ability should be making top talent look stupid but instead he only does anything against guys that shouldnt even be in his league
and i only watched the 3 or 4 games that were televise of his junior year and no he didn’t
whats your take on alshon jeffry though? considering we can ignore poor poorformances of senior years i would imagine you would be pretty high on him
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Except he wasn’t “absolutely destroyed” by Mike Adams in the Senior Bowl. You’re also saying that like Mike Adams isn’t a potential first round pick, which he is.
So, you only watched televised games? Did you watch only 3 or 4 games his senior year or all of them?
he did get absolutely destroyed
he was completely stone walled he only did anything against that guard from iowa state
and yeah alfie so did you. unless you have film im assuming anybody that watched any player watched them on tv or if they went to a game
i only watched 3 or 4 junior year and i watched every one i could this year which was also 3 or 4 if i remember correctly
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
well... maybe he was so lazy
he just stood there and the other guys all beat their lineman and chased the quarterback and he had no place to go but right to the spot where Coples was still standing (taking a knee, more likely) when the ball was snapped. I didn’t watch him in any games, but maybe that’s how he got 7.5 sacks
Section 442, RIP
"You think you know, but you don't know."
running after the play
and not getting blown off the line of scrimmage by players that wont even sniff at being drafted
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
getting beat on a play by a crappy player when youre have top 5 ability is
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
clemson guard rocked him a couple times last year
idk his name
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 14, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Best comment of the day
I swear with some of you, you just fish for reasons to write off a player no matter how ridiculous it comes off. It’s awesome.
Rec’d
by Sylvester.The.Jaguar.fan on Feb 14, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not going to be JPP in temrs of pass rushing ability and overall athleticism
but he can be a better OVERALL DE in my opinion if he reaches his potential.
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
If he is that good, why doesn’t anybody else draft him top5? Just an honest question that I have.. Because maybe he isn’t going to be that good.
by bdk790 on Feb 14, 2012 4:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
i guess that makes coples not elite then.
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
How did you get that from that?
Coples has to deal with around 10 other “elite” top 10 potential players. Not every great player is drafted in the top 10, sometimes there’s so many that they slide due to the numbers game
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
The Problem with our Wide recievers is that they're never wide open and they have trouble receiving the ball...
by TheTealDeal on Feb 14, 2012 4:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
from what ive watched all of the de’s seem to be around the same level talentwise..nothing about coples jumps out at me over a stills or ingram.
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
they all have footage of getting blocked and getting tackles for loss. coples def isnt a technician
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
And Ingram is a 3-4 OLB while Devon Still is a freaking defensive tackle. So, what are you comparing when you’re watching three players who will play three completely different positions?
coples played both. stills can play both and look at the success williams had standing up. more versatility = more value. coples is just big and strong. the same love affair people had with harvey. im sure you were on that boat as well.
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
But Derrick Harvey wasn’t “big and strong”. Derrick Harvey was about 6-4 250lbs. Coples is 6-6 290lbs.
Coples is absolutely nothing like Derrick Harvey except for the fact that they’re both black and both play defensive end.
Actually, I wasn’t on the Derrick Harvey boat at all. I said all prior to the draft he was an LDE and not the type of pass rusher the team needed. Try again.
just think we can plug bigger holes..i guess free agency will make the choice. we sign a williams and that changes the whole dynamic of our draft.
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
mincey, avril, a healthy kampmen? roth?
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
i even liked the occasional alualu at the end
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Mincey and Roth are free agents. Kampman is completely done.
If you sign Williams, you’re not also signing Avril.
Only said what I did because the fact that Coples has a lot of questions.. Picking him 7 would purely be because of his size and potential.. Not because Of pass rushing skills like we have been searching for here
by bdk790 on Feb 14, 2012 5:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Anyone you pick at 7 is because of potential. That’s what the draft is.
by Alfie Crow on Feb 14, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Correct.. Some have just proved there potential (mercilus Whitney for example) better then others ..I want sacks, qb pressures, forced fumbles, tackles for loss. Coples doesn’t have the burst other pass rushers have
by bdk790 on Feb 14, 2012 5:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Stats shouldn’t be the only determining factor on a players potential. Coples didn’t have a talented LDE opposite of him (Martin barely got 4 sacks). This meant Coples often faced double teams as offenses knew his ability and made sure to adjust their game plan around solely blocking him. Whitney on the other hand had an great LDE in Buchanan who made it so offenses had to worry about him as well as Whitney so Whitney was rarely doubled.
stats aside...
Whitney actually has the burst you need. Coples doesn’t.. We need a pass rusher, not somebody who can be in the rotation, and i think thats what Coples will be.
Watch the 2 tapes of both players. Mercilus shows burst and pass rushing ability, Coples doesn’t have nearly the burst on tape, the stats just happen to follow along..
you have it totally wrong
Mercilus is the guy who has a glaring weakness(run defense) that would need to get a lot better to enable him to be an every downs players. Coples is the guy who can already be an every downs player even if not a prolific pass rusher.
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
We will see.. I bet mercilys has more Sacks in his NFL career.
by bdk790 on Feb 15, 2012 5:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
ok
Aaron Schobel had more sacks in a shorter career than his fellow 2001 draftee Justin Smith. I do not even need to say this, but you take Justin Smith over Schobel at least 9 times out of 10.
Sack numbers alone is a dangerous measure of DE talent. Mario Williams has put up fewer sacks(albeit by .5) than fellow 2006 draftee Tamba Hali. Do you really want Hali over Williams?
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
so we wont resign mincey? i like roth but he’s not a make or break guy..why do you say kampmen is done? lack of pt last season?
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Why do I say Kampman is done? Gee, I don’t know.
Mincey is going to ask for quite a bit of money. If they’re signing Mario Williams, they’re not bringing back Mincey unless he comes on the cheap.
mincey wont command much. at the beginning of last season smith said kampmen wouldnt get much time i dont think that means he’s done..if he stays healthy he can be effective.
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
gotta ween them crappy knees in slowly
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Smith said Kampman would play less snaps. That was before they realized his knees are gone.
How much money do you think Mincey is going to want, out of curiosity?
want and worth are two dif things hes worth 3-5 a year who knows what he wants
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
hell id give him more for less years. he played better than alot of guys that make alot more than him.
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Can we please stop with the Kampman talk.
Dude is done. He has 2 surgically repaired knees, and is another year older. I also do not care about him being a mentor or coach. He needs to take it on the arches.
Fidelis Ad Mortem
WOW!!!
that is just an awful job coming to conclusions
"The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." -Vince Lombardi
Twitter: @JWGreenbaum
Ummm...maybe they will. That's what's funny about all this.
We are all, experts included, guessing.
Fidelis Ad Mortem
If he turns out to be JPP
Fans on here will all be calling him a bust since JPP didn’t start a single game as a rookie.
How many back hand springs can he do?
JPP can do a lot. Thats the best way to judge the potential of a DE.
by JagSoldier on Feb 14, 2012 4:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
LOL
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Why draft Coples...
when we have Austin Lane!? lol
by Kashan Jabari Fields on Feb 14, 2012 4:38 PM EST reply actions
austin lane...
has a cool nickname..why draft a wr when we have dillard..why draft a cb when we have a beat up, old mathis..why draft a tackle when we have whimper..
by tellitlikeitistc on Feb 14, 2012 4:46 PM EST reply actions
I think Lane and Dillard could
swap positions and we would still get the same production out of the DE and WR position.
by JagSoldier on Feb 14, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahaha
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
The Problem with our Wide recievers is that they're never wide open and they have trouble receiving the ball...
by TheTealDeal on Feb 14, 2012 7:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Love this!
Sad. But true..Funny as hell, cuz its true.
"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon Bonaparte
by 78hustla Jag on Feb 15, 2012 2:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
JPP has the edge in pure athleticism,
But Couples is stronger at the point, and a good athlete as well
he is only the next JPP if we pass him up again
Teach me how to Deji
by Pocket Hercules on Feb 15, 2012 11:29 AM EST reply actions
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