Drafting a QB in the first round is like playing Russian Roulette:
by T.Holmes on Feb 8, 2012 4:27 PM EST
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PrintAs we enter this 2012 offseason and the Andrew Luck/Robert Griffin III chatter begins many NFL GMs are shaking in their boots about who will be the future leader of their franchise. This ever-building anxiety will then force these general managers to reach on players come next year's NFL Draft. I ask you: How many first round QBs have actually amounted to anything? Let's take a look at the past first round draft picks, since the NFL implemented the salary cap (1994).
As we all know from the last two years of drafts, no matter what anyone says these teams are GOING TO draft guys higher than their worth due to the nature of the position...but the true BAP (best available player) question remains: Should first round QBs even be considered a premium position?
| Player | Team | Year | Yrs in top 8 yardage in NFL (top 1/4 of league) |
| Trent Dilfer | TB | 1994 | |
| Heath Shuler | WASH | 1994 | |
| Steve McNair | TENN | 1995 | |
| Kerry Collins | CAR | 1995 | (4 none w/ team that drafted him) |
| Jim Druckenmiller | SF | 1997 | |
| Peyton Manning | INDY | 1998 | 12 |
| Ryan Leaf | SD | 1998 | |
| Tim Couch | CLE | 1999 | |
| Donovan McNabb | PHI | 1999 | 2 |
| Akoli Smith | CIN | 1999 | |
| Cade McNown | CHI | 1999 | |
| Daunte Culpepper | MIN | 1999 | 2 |
| Chad Pennington | NYJ | 2000 | |
| Michael Vick | ATL | 2001 | |
| David Carr | HOU | 2002 | |
| Joey Harrington | DET | 2002 | |
| Patrick Ramsey | WAS | 2002 | |
| Carson Palmer | CIN | 2003 | 4 |
| Bryon Leftwich | JAX | 2003 | |
| Kyle Boller | BAL | 2003 | |
| Rex Grossman | CHI | 2003 | |
| Eli Manning | NYG | 2004 | 3 |
| Rhillip Rivers | SD | 2004 | 4 |
| Ben Roethlisberger | PITT | 2004 | 2 |
| J. P. Losman | BUF | 2004 | |
| Alex Smith | SF | 2005 | |
| Aaron Rodgers | GB | 2005 | 4 |
| Jason Campbell | WASH | 2005 | |
| Vince Young | TENN | 2006 | |
| Matt Leinart | ARIZ | 2006 | |
| Jay Cutler | DEN | 2006 |
2 |
| Brady Quinn | CLEVE | 2007 | |
| JaMarcus Russell | OAK | 2007 |
|
| Matt Ryan | ATL | 2008 | 1 |
| Joe Flacco | BAL | 2008 | |
| Matt Stafford | DET | 2009 | 1 |
| Mark Sanchez | NYJ | 2009 | |
| Josh Freeman | TB | 2009 | |
So, there we have it. No Tom Brady (8) , Drew Brees (7), Matt Schaub (2), Tony Romo (4), Kurt Warner (4), or Marc Bulger (3 yrs) on that list...all either drafted outside of the first round or totally undrafted!
Heck, I'd even take Jake Plummer (2), Jeff Garcia, Jon Kitna (2), Matt Hasselbeck (2), Matt Cassel (1), Jake Delhomme (1), Gus Frerotte, Kordell Stewart, David Garrard, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, and potentially even Matt Flynn over a good portion of these guys. Yet all of these second tier QBs cost less to their team than any of those first round picks, while doing more for their team than 75% of the above names.
While there's always an argument to be made that the above quarterbacks are a dime per dozen, none of them cost their team a first round pick or set them back years "taking a chance" on a guy. As we see from the table above 26 of the 39 first round QBs drafted since 1994 have never been in the top 8 in passing yards in any given season (66% or 2 out of every 3). Think about what would have happened if each of those 26 teams would have instead drafted a true premier position instead of the "reach" that they went with, and maybe picked up one of the "lower ranked" guys above? In the past 18 years there have only been 13 first round QBs in the top 8 in NFL passing yards.
I believe that the reach for Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, and potentially Blaine Gabbert may set their respective teams back for 3-4 years. Just my take...(and I definitely believe in Gabbert, but I'm not sure if he's THE answer-only time will tell)....NFL GMs must stop reaching for QBs simply because of their position. This is the same mentality that is taken with many positions, so why not QB? If they're not THE guy and just A guy...then use that pick on someone else and pick up someone that fits that pick. That is true BAP. QB is absolutely a premium position with all things constant, but only if the athlete is premium player themselves.
Sources:
http://www.twominutewarning.com/qbrd1.htm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/story?id=1539344
http://www.giftsandfreeadvice.com/free_advice/quarterbacks-drafted-in-the-nfl-1970-2008-by-year-team-round-college/
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Does-a-club-need-to-use-a-firstround-pick-on-a-QB.html
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Couldn't you make the same argument about boom/bust 1st rd picks at every position?
Honestly, it’s not like QBs have a monopoly on first round failures.
Fidelis Ad Mortem
I'm only looking at QBs because this is a premium position that has a pretty high boom or bust rate. Don't generally say the same thing for other premium positions
Left tackles, Corners….pass rushing DEs would be the closest second I guess…and that’s only because they’re overdrafted too.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Without any statistics to back this up
Seems to me that Tackles rarely bust. Like any other position they have some guys that don’t live up to their hype, but I can’t think of a lot of first round tackles that are Derick Harvey bad.
by Mr.Awesome on Feb 8, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly...lol
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
That's just because we haven't had one
I’m sure there are plenty of them. They just don’t get as much press.
I think there are actually relatively few, as a percentage of first round picks
It’s one of the reasons they are taken so high. Very low risk of them busting, they’re usually exceptionally smart and versatile enough to slide to an inside position if they don’t pan out at tackle (like Robert Gallery or possibly Eben Britton).
if you draft a LT in the 1st round
and he ends up a serviceable G, how is that different than a 1st round QB become a Trent Dilfer or Kerry Collins type?
It's not even just kick to the inside
The majority of Tackles taken in the (top especially) of the first round are projected as left tackles. Sometimes they bounce to the right and play well.
One of the reasons tackles are not a high bust rate
is because you can try to move them inside. QBs that are drafted for the position of QB are either sink or swim. Hard to move DE as well.
I think fans are just
quicker to label a QB a bust.
Nice Article but...
A lot of misconceptions. 1. Blaine Gabbert was considered the top pick in the draft by some, so how is he a reach at 10? 2. By limiting it to the top 8 in Yardage only, that is leaving a lot of room for other factors. 3. By limitiing to only the top 8 in yards, you are eliminating more than HALF of the best qbs in the NFL. If any of those guys is ever a starter for more than 3 years and have any sort of success, it is hard to call them a bust. Bust are JaMarcuss Russel and Ryan Leaf.
Agreed.
Trent Dilfer was far from great, but he did enough to get a ring. Kerry Collins wasn’t great, but he had a LOOOONG and fairly successful career.
Fidelis Ad Mortem
I included Kerry Collins in the list of QBs that did make the top 8, so not 100% sure if you're disagreeing or agreeing lol...
And Trent Dilfer did “enough to get a ring”…he had a six year term with Tampa….4 of those years he had more ints than TDs. He was a game manager, nothing more…His D did enough to get him that ring
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
I disagree in the sense that I would always take a chance on a QB over any other position.
In today’s game, you must have a QB who can win you ball games. I actually don’t care if he turns out to be a stud, as long as he leads the team to playoffs every year.
Fidelis Ad Mortem
I absolutely understand the mindset of taking the chance on a QB...just thinking I'm more with the base hit analogy
Just saying look at that list and the names of the teams next to them…now look at the status of those teams over the next 5-8 years of those teams that missed (and this is just looking at the first round picks!)
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, Brett Farve, Drew Brees, etc... were all base hits. They didn't know what they had until they had it...shown by their initial draft status/ranking.
You draft ranking shows how the team that drafted you values you (and how the other teams that picked before you value you). Had they known he would be a home run of course they would have been drafted first pick of the draft! Base hits most definitely get it done!
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Also, I doubt Trent Dilfer or his teammates care about stats as long as they got a ring.
The defense was awesome, but they had to score at least once to win.
Fidelis Ad Mortem
They may have
cared about that 5 game stretch without a touchdown.
by JagNative on Feb 9, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He was considered the top pick in the draft by some...
But he really didn’t deserve to be. His production senior year wasn’t where it should have been and he showed a lot of things on tape that caused even casual observers to question him.
You do make a valid point about limiting the measure to top 8 passing only.
Re: busts. Of course, Jamarcus Russel and Ryan Leaf are busts, but what about Rex Grossman, Brady Quinn, Byron Leftwich? Those were guys that their respective teams put a lot of effort into grooming and helping out and they never did enough for their teams to want them around. They’re not clear busts like the ones you’ve mentioned, but they weren’t the answer.
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Feb 8, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldnt call...
them bust….but how about under acheivers?
WE ARE JAGUARS.......FEAR OUR ROAR!!!!!!
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.
--George Patton--
under achievers are busts
you dont draft a player high for them to suck and not be on your team 5 years after you drafted them
Cold Blooded
by Jaggaholic82 on Feb 8, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Amen...it's like ppl saying Chris Johnson wasn't a fantasy bust last year. Like hell he wasn't! LOL...
I didn’t draft you #4 for you to be #20 in fantasy RB scoring! Lol
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
CJ fell to #4 in your draft?
I mean, I thought he was gonna underachieve this year, but 4?
Twitter: BLByline Youtube: BLByline
2011 Big Cat Country fantasy football league CHAMPION
by Brian Levenson on Feb 9, 2012 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Four was high for my last year's draft...
Consistently behind Rogers, Peterson, and Brady…and sometimes others.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Based on that logic you'd probably have
50% of 1st round draft picks being busts.
50% or more of first round picks ARE a bust! LOL...not worth their value!
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
that's where I differ with the symantics
Not worth where you are picked doesn’t make you a bust. Bust equal terrible Ryan Leaf types. Not 1st round picks that have a 10 year career but don’t become a perennial pro bowl player.
You're using Trent Dilfer to one hell of an extreme lol...
Look at that list. At least 50% of them can’t even be qualified as “serviceable”
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
It only takes one servicable QB
to make using the term “Bust” lose it’s meaning.
Coples didn't have a great senior year
Guess that means he’s not worth a top pic either.
I never called them a bust. I stated they weren't worth the value/cost of their pick...which set their team back (seeing as they would either be drafting another QB soon or could have had someone of equal talent for cheaper)
which means they missed out on a legitimate first round talent.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
You expect less than top 25% in the league in yards
From your 1st round QB? I mean, there’s not a lot of guys on that list that didn’t make at least 1 season that I’d be willing to trade a 1st round pick for (in their prime). Maybe Mcnair or Vick, but that’s a pretty short list of guys I’d still think twice about. I like that it requires a comparison against the others in the league at that time, so anywhere on the timeline is just as relevent.
Really interesting info here
Nice article. I think choosing top quarter of the league is a pretty fair assumption of where your 1st round QB is expected to be.
By my understanding, a premium position has more to do with having few elites/greats or in this case the top 25% of Quarterbacks. I don’t think it literally means players that are drafted well in the first round. I think the lack of success is more of a sign that scouts really haven’t figured out how to assess top quarterbacks around the league, yet. That’s why I like Gene’s apparent fondness for confident guys who interview well (according to Vic, anyways). Is QB premium? I think so.
Hopefully you will allow me to jump in on this conversation...
I respectfully disagree. When given the chance of drafting a QB in the first round, I would do it. And keep doing it over and over again until you hit on one. I did a post last year when the Titans were obviously looking for a QB that briefly touches on the concept, linked here. Brief summary: If you believe in a QB that’s available at your pick, you take him and tell the draft ‘experts’ to suck it. Without a QB, you are not going anywhere. Let’s consider the options (first round QB vs mid round QB), broken down into 4 possible results.
First Round QB Success = You struck it rich, decade of competing awaits.
First Round QB Failure = Missed wildly, most likely costs you your job, BUT your team likely has a top 10 pick to target another QB with.
Mid Round QB Success = Found a good/great player, but usually lacks the elite potential we’ve seen in the top QBs.
Mid Round QB Failure = Still looking for the QB of the future, but likely not sucking badly enough to land a top QB in the draft.
Now, these are quite simplistic and discussed a little more in my fanpost above, but the sum of it is (assuming you like a QB available in the first) take him and don’t look back. You’re either bound for success or going to do it all over again in a few years. I don’t disagree that its Russian Roulette, but no matter the result, you’re probably better off than going for a mid round QB.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 8, 2012 8:07 PM EST reply actions
See, I just can't agree with that view though! LOL
Because what’s missing in that assessment of the situation is the fact that you’ll likely take at least 2-4 years (let’s avg 3) figuring out that first round “talent” wasn’t talented as much as you thought. Now you’re four years later and in the same spot you started. That’s a wasted draft pick and missed opportunity costs in the past three drafts with QBs not drafted because you had “your guy”.
Most QB picks these days are need picks…like I REALLY NEED this guy! They’re hope picks. If it’s not Luck or someone of that level caliber I’m good…just give me base hits…I’ll draft him in the second.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Re:
Now you’re four years later and in the same spot you started. That’s a wasted draft pick and missed opportunity costs in the past three drafts with QBs not drafted because you had "your guy"
Exactly. I didn’t say it wouldn’t be painful, but if the end game is Super Bowl titles, then its better to grab someone in the first. Let’s use the Titans. Locker at 8, signed a 4 year deal. At the end of the deal, if he turns out to be a bad player, we’ll be picking in the top ten again. Conveniently, this allows us another opportunity to go grab another highly rated QB. And if he’s successful, then we’re golden.
Switch to the Dolphins in 2008. Deciding QB was too risky, they passed on Matt Ryan. Now, they’re not going anywhere, but they also haven’t sucked enough to be in position for Luck or Griffin. When it comes to drafting QBs, you’re better off swinging for the fences. Home run or strikeout, that’s what I want, because the second round base hit isn’t going to lead you to a Super Bowl, but he’s good enough to get you to mediocrity (forcing you to stay away from those potential elite QBs at the top of the draft).
That’s a wasted draft pick and missed opportunity costs in the past three drafts with QBs not drafted because you had "your guy".
This is, in my opinion, an overplayed myth. Without a QB, you are not going anywhere. So you passed up a QB in favour of a stud DE, WR, RB, LB, CB, whatever. (Also, just fyi, these are not safer picks- so there is still roughly a 50% chance you miss on the opportunity cost pick). Going for the Chris Longs of the world aren’t going to impact win-loss records that much. Selecting the Bradfords, Ryans, and so on do. No matter, even if you hit on that non QB pick, they aren’t taking you to a Super Bowl. I’m not saying a mid round QB can’t take you to a Super Bowl, but I am saying its extremely unlikely.
I will not win any fans here by saying that I think Gabbert has a really low chance at success, but I would prefer he at least become mediocre, and ensure that the Jags aren’t in position to draft a top QB whenever they end up moving on.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 8, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Add on: I misinterpreted what you said about missing out on selecting other QBs because you reached for the first guy.
I really don’t like that argument. Even if you were to go for the second round QB pick, he’s bound to get 2-3 years to prove his worth, likely what first round QBs will get with the reduced rookie salaries.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 8, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
But the cost of the second round player gives you leverage not to feel you HAVE to wait that 3 yr time frame to replace them...you draft a first round talent, no picks for 3-4 yrs is pretty much a given.
And btw, how many superbowls in the table of first round picks above? LOL…I can only count 7 currently out of 18 years…where as the list below that table shows non-first round picks are at 5 rings (with the other 6 spots filled with guys drafted before 94). That tells me that 58% of Super Bowls were won by first round draft picks in this sample size. How is that 8% worth the risk of putting your team back likely 5-7 years?
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Re:
But the cost of the second round player gives you leverage not to feel you HAVE to wait that 3 yr time frame to replace them…you draft a first round talent, no picks for 3-4 yrs is pretty much a given.
This argument applies to any first or second rounder you draft. You don’t have to wait, just pretty much all do. If the Jags give up on Gabbert next year there is nothing preventing them from drafting another QB except ego.
The past seven Super Bowl winners have been QBed by either a first round pick of the 32nd picked Drew Brees. Now that’s obviously very recent, and if you stretch back to 1990 the number is more like 59%, but unless you’re going to find the next Tom Brady, first round picks are much more likely to give you the Super Bowl ring.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 9, 2012 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
I specifically used 1994 due to that being the start of this nfl...nfl with salary cap ramifications
And “if you look at the last seven” (lol)…that’s not selective at all, huh? LOL…Why not 8? Because the larger sample size you use diminishes your point! I used an 18 yr time frame….that’s 3-4 generations of QBs all in salary cap nfl time to prove my point of that 58%…whereas the only rebuttal is “6 of the last 7 were first rounders”? What happens if 6 of the next 7 end up not being first rounders over the next seven years? It’s a moot point!
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
/sigh. Now you're not getting it.
Since I looked all the way back, I’m going to use 1990, though you’re free to use any interval you want.
14/22 SB winners were first round picks (I actually forgot Dilfer, so that’s 63.63% now).
Late rounders and UDFAs: Tom Brady, Kurt Warner and Brad Johnson account for another 5/22.
That leaves 3: Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Drew Brees (drafted 32nd).
People like you accuse others of manipulating stats because you don’t like what you’re hearing. Go ahead and do that, that ought to be a good strategy. But your “base hit” strategy accounted for 13.63% of the previous 22 SB winners. Where are all these base hits you intend to draft? Basically, the only way you’re not winning a SB with a first round QB these days is to be coached by an all time great like Belichick or Walsh.
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by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 9, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Bilichick and all time great? LOL...was he great when he was with the Browns with a losing record?
You’re still manipulating the stats to show what you want it to show. I used a specific year of 1994 because it deleted the non-salary cap dynasties from the equation. That is a different game than the game we currently watch. It will never happen like that again due to free agency and the cap. THAT’S why I used 1994 as a starting point. And you can’t use Brees as a point in your argument if he wasn’t a first round pick…at some point there must be a cut off. Mine is the end of the first round and 1994.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Just saying...it's less about the coach and more about the player (Brady)...without Brady he'd still be that same coach he was w/ the Browns...
Now did he HELP Brady? Yes…but best of all time? Hardly. Not even in conversation. I consider someone the best of all time if they get the most from little or coach a team who’s sum is bigger than its parts. Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi , Bill Parcells (improving multiple teams consistently -like 4 of them), Don Shula (Super Bowl with two teams and a 328-156 record), Chuck Noll (a drafting genius, who turned a terrible team into a powerhouse ONLY by drafting and coaching them up, drafted multiple hall of fame players).
The patriots are built around one man and one man alone. They built themselves off of Brady. That’s it. No one else. Didn’t draft or build a TEAM or any other hall of fame candidates (Welker was a proven commodity FA). Winning the game alone does not make you an all time great if you weren’t the biggest variable in your wins. Belichichk’s an GOOD coach…I’d even be on the verge of saying just above average. That’s it.
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
So 3 titles makes him "just above average" ?
The 2001 team was not built around Brady. Belichick is definitely a great coach. You don’t make it to 5 Super Bowls being average.
Really? How many of those SBs did he make it to without Brady? Exactly.
The Patriots were essentially the same team that went 5-11 with Belichick as the head coach the year before that first SB….odd….I’m just stating facts…you say it’s the coach…I say it’s the player.
Let me get this straight…a coach has a losing record with the Browns susbequently has a losing record in his first year with a team and then oddly in his FIRST YEAR WITH A NEW QB his fortunes turn around…and everything he has has come on the back of that one player? That makes him a great coach? Got cha.
Just odd how you can have a career losing record with two teams (one of them the same team you’re coaching now)….Winning can change general perception, but it doesn’t alter the facts. Did Belichick change that much from the year before (when he had another Pro Bowl QB), or is it the QB?
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
You imply that the QB made the coach
BIll Walsh won 3 Super Bowls because he had Joe Montana. Also started his coaching career 8-24 his first 2 seasons.
Vince Lombardi won 5 NFL Championships and 2 Super Bowls because he had Bart Starr.
That is what you are saying
You can say all you want about it, but Belichick is a great coach.
Thats always going to be one of those unanswerable "the Chicken or the Egg" questions
Another recent example brought up is Alex Smith and the situation with the 49ers. Smith was dubbed “the QB that no one wanted” and a bust. Then Lo and behold Jim Harbaugh comes to town and Alex Smith is night and day compared to his former self. Is that Harbaugh and Co., or Alex Smith?
by Jags85 on Feb 9, 2012 1:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
More so for my examples than the one you gave
I think its a combo of great coaches and great QBs
Ahhhhh...I love the fresh arguments that have no answer in the morning...
LOL
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
Yeahhhhh...I shoulda split my comments to make more sense lol
But what I was getting at was I think Coaches are usually underrated when it comes to any or great QB’s. I think they have or can have an instrumental effect on the QB and there growth. Not in all cases, ofcourse, but I do nonetheless. It’s not always the QB that makes the coach.
by Jags85 on Feb 9, 2012 2:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's not always the QB that makes the coach just as it's not always the coach that makes the QB.....#SquareOne
Pretty sure if Peyton only had one coach his career we’d be singing his praises too….yet, due to his specific situation with having different coaches we can delete that thought process from the equation….valid point still…
"Sad fact about our generation: Most ppl would rather hear "you look good" than "you are good". We spend thousands a year on cars, clothes, & cosmetics; Forget that. I can give you a Bible for free. Save money, save your soul. Get right with the Savior, Jesus Christ."- Travis D. Holmes
I'm not going to argue with you anymore.
If you object to me saying a coach with 3 rings and 5 SB appearances to his name is not one of the best coaches of all time, there is no hope for you.
Clearly your goal here is to present your side of view without considering counterpoints that show holes in your logic.
You have been banned from Stampede Blue.
You apparently aren't interested in commenting on the Colts, but instead just want to take shots at editors for how we manage our blog. Thus, you're now no longer welcome.
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Feb 9, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Very well written article
by nationalmediacansuckit on Feb 8, 2012 8:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I too am not selling stock in Gabbert. Unlike the talking heads I watch every single snap. Unlike the talking heads I and Every Jag fan know what he was up against. His rookie season wasn’t pretty, burning as bad as these copy cats repeating the same thing over and over b/c they haven’t watched a complete Jag game.
by nationalmediacansuckit on Feb 8, 2012 8:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
having more tds than pic’s, even though it is one, is a good sign as a rookie.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 9, 2012 4:43 AM EST up reply actions
So if we call the media/analyst's "Talking Heads"
What do we call Bloggers and Sports Writers? Writing Hands? Lol
by Jags85 on Feb 9, 2012 1:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What do you expect a 100% success rate?
33% of QBs drafted in the first round ending up in the top 8 of passing at least one season is pretty good. It’s phenomenal actually.
While comparing the 33% to the overall percentage of every rookie QB drafted or just those in rounds 2-7, the 33% may seem like it isn’t worth the investment. But usually one first round QB is not worth the other six picks in the draft. GMs take the draft round by round. Analysis of it should be done that way too.
I haven’t done the math, but what about 2nd round QBs? I’m willing to bet the number of passers who get into the top eight doesn’t amount to 33% of those drafted then. So on and so forth.
In comparison to whatever those numbers are, I’m fairly confident the 33% is probably pretty enticing. Let’s keep in mind that for every Kurt Warner in the league, there are people drafted through all seven rounds who are bounced within a year.
by LukeNSims on Feb 9, 2012 7:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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